I'm honestly sorry, EL, but it's not my fault...
Well, EL...sorry. It's not my fault.
I had nothing to do with what happened on the phone today.
UNLIKE you, EL, who seemed to think it was cute to teach The Boy to say, "RHA looks like a doggie!"
Yes, I know you did that on purpose. No 2 year old spontaneously comes up with the phrase, "she looks like a doggie!" Neither you or I have ever used that expression to talk about a woman's appearance. So it's no coincidence.
I admit, I DID of course correct The Boy and teach him to say "RHA is pretty!" So now if you ask him, "What does RHA look like?" that's what you are going to hear. Sorry about that, and I'm depressed I had to do something like that, but if nothing else I've taught him to say something that's true and you taught him a lie, I can comfort myself with that one. And I also teach him to say "Mommy is pretty!" too, because, to a boy his mother is always the most beautiful woman in the world...so it's true.
But that was just to correct your pathetic, nasty little using-our-son-to-be-mean gambit. I'm proud to say, while the thought crossed my mind here and there over the last 4 months to either teach him outright, or just say a lot in his presence, "Mommy is a whore" I never, EVER did. It never got past the "I could teach him to say...oh no holy SHIT did I really just even THINK that???" stage. I know better. I would never do that. This blog clearly shows at many stages how I refuse to do that, and have wished you'd do the same in return.
So...anyway...
When you called this morning at 9AM which is completely out of character, and I knew beyond any doubt it was because you were depressed and wanted to talk to The Boy to cheer yourself up....and when you said, "Hi!" and he said, "Hi! Is it RHA on the phone? Is it RHA?" to you...well...I actually felt bad for you. But I can't control what he says.
I guess I could try to get him to "not talk about RHA" around you, but that sounds a little creepy, too, like I'm trying to hide something or ask HIM to hide something. And I don't think I should do that either.
I don't even know if you could hear me but it was me whispering in the background to remind him to say, "I love Mommy" when you wanted to say goodbye.
I don't relish how much that hurts. I hope it never happens to me when I call The Boy on a day he's with you and some guy is around. And if it does, I hope you have the kindness to try and correct him, and that you won't actually teach him to say that to "get back at me."
Which, given your example of teaching him to say "RHA looks like a doggie" I am not confident of, however.
Remember, none of this was my idea, and I can't help it I'm happier with it this way now, and you aren't, but it's the way it is and the way it's gonna be. My hands are washed - maybe now you'll get yourself some mental help.
posted by Fensty at 9:57 AM
8 Comments:
So, there's my Catch-22. Do I teach him to keep secrets and "not talk about RHA" or do I risk this shit happening?
I can't help but think teaching him NOT to say things is worse, isn't it?
Also, do I need to rethink this whole, "He's only 2, he's too young to understand who RHA is to me, so having him meet her sometimes is not a big deal, he just considers her another adult playmate of his like a teacher or a friend of his gram or pap's...."
One of my friends thinks I do. You know who you are darlin' I'm chatting with you right now. :)
GGBD, nope, same response I gave to Kayten I give you: Post away! I wouldn't ask if I didn't want opinions, I love 'em.
I think you and I are similiar in the snooping. I understand and I don't hold it against you. Originally my motive was EXACTLY yours - the "know your enemy" type of thing, same reason I listen to right-wing radio morons like Rush and Hannity. :)
So yeah, I ws the same way - wanted to know about him. It's a control thing and I don't deny it. Would I ever "act" on any of it? Nah. Engage in fantasies that I might show up at his work with copies of his emails to my ex? LOL...yeah, guilty.
But I know how to seperate the two, and I don't think what I'm doing is downright "scary" or mentally damaging. A little bit weird, yeah.
It does get better, too, you will see.
I need to read and comment on your blog more actually. I am also too wrapped up in my OWN shit lately if I was paying more attention to others it might help me get out of my own snooping funk. :)
JD -- I'm not a parent, and so I really don't know that what I'm saying holds any value... I did date a guy for awhile who had a 2 year old and an ex wife... which is my only real experience aside from common sense... but for what it's worth here's the way I see it.
Will RHA and the Boy having a relationship right now damage him? I'd say that's doubtful. He's 2, he might be sad if a person in his life left for whatever reason... but kids lose friends, kids lose grandparents, kids lose pets all the time. It's a lesson he needs to learn, and he's got a mommy, so it's not like he's losing that... as for damaging the boy, I'd guess you're probably fine.
Do you need to rethink it? Maybe. Not for his sake, so much, but for the sake of the situation. Think about your motives. Why do you want him to know RHA right now? Does it really matter if you keep them seperate? Will that harm anything long term for you? for her? for the two of them? Are there any negatives associated with them NOT having a relationship aside from you wanting them to have one?
Why does it feel so damn good to you that he likes RHA? and you know what? That's probably the reason it feels so darn bad to EL.
You have a bit of "rub it in her face-ism" right now JD. Which I think goes with the control issues you realise you have. JD knows best, JD was right, JD is on a good path and EL isn't. It validates your control issues (ie if she had just LISTENED to ME she wouldn't be IN this mess) Being right is something controllers like.
Your actions, although not active and stupid like EL's in teaching the boy to say rude insulting stuff, are having the same effect. Is there something you can do about it? Definitely.
You can choose to take the high road, let the wounds heal, give things some time, and keep the Boy and RHA separate... until they really need to meet. A 2 year old doesn't have a whole lot of adults in their life, and the ones that are in their lives on a semi regular basis tend to always end up with a very special place, it's a function of age... and obviously that's going to hurt EL, which will hurt your relationship with EL, which is supposed to be amicable and compromising for the sake of the Boy..
Bottom line, there are always choices, and although the one you're making now isn't "wrong" or "bad" and you might say "screw it, she brought it on herself"... but do the Boy and RHA really have to have a relationship right now, while both you and EL have huge gaping wounds from a divorce that doesn't even have ink on it yet, let alone dry ink? What are your motives JD... although there's nothing wrong with what you're doing, there just might be a choice that will keep things smoother for now, if you really do want to take the high road.
Lookout Dr. Phil.
Hmm, see Sara, that's a pretty well thought out response that's hard to argue with.
My main motive is just that RHA gets to see "the whole package" in terms of who I am and who I bring with me, to fairly evaluate for herself whether she wants to be in this....we already have these strong feelings that are hard to seperate from "rebound" scenarios...I wouldn't want to leave a major part of my life OUT of the equation for, whatever, 3 months - and then find out when we get to that point, she doesn't like that aspect.
Am I "sad" there are side effects of making EL feel like shit? No, probably not. I certainly know it's there, so knowing it's there means I accept it which means I'm at least "ok" with it.
So you're right. It's a balance of the two at this point. I mainly focused on the fact that I WANT RHA to see "all of me" and that it WILL NOT "harm" The Boy...but, seen from your angle...there is another whole side to it, how it'll affect EL and her relationship with me.
Damn, it's a poser isn't it. I suppose I should at least try to tone it down through the divorce process. But I really don't want to. The Boy and RHA have fun together, and seeing her and him interact makes me feel even more that she's someone who can be "right" for me and I for her...
hmm.
So maybe knowing that is enough to help you tone it down for a little while? I mean, EL did bring any "wounds" she suffering on herself, but it sounds like you know RHA and the boy are going to have a good relationship long term from whats happened already, maybe developping that further can wait until you're in a situation the EL won't try and sour that relationship between them for her own selfish reasons?
Not that I think there's anything wrong with what you're doing, just that maybe there's an easier way to deal with the whole thing
What a bitch EL is.
How can she possibly be a "good mother"??? A "good mother" doesn't encourage her young child to criticize someone's physical appearance. A "good mother" doesn't leave a marriage for a fuckbuddy. Face it: she's NOT a "good mother", regardless of how much she might love the boy.
I would do whatever is most convenient for you. That is, if it's convenient for the Boy to go along when you see RHA, fine. If it's not, fine. The more important question is whether RHA is truly as interested in having the boy along as you are.
If she is, great. If she really isn't, then perhaps you should shift gears into thinking about the relationship as a short-term one. The main thing is that the Boy only be exposed to people who will at least give him some quality attention, and, hopefully, love.
EL's latest atrocity shows either (1) how little class she has, or (2) how mentally sick she is.
This whole story is very, very sad. I can't understand what gets into women's heads.
I think it all begins with self-pitying claims of "emotional abuse" or "controlling behavior",
where "emotional abuse" is simply criticism for silly/stupid/negligent acts or omissions, and "controlling behavior" is simply RATIONAL behavior in the face of irrationality or stupidity.
As I have said many, many times before, if your behavior was SO bad, she should have left BEFORE having an affair. Therefore the ENTIRE responsibility for the current situation lies on HER shoulders.
Whatever you decide, I'm quite confident that you have better judgement in the matter than EL or anyone who posts here.
SH
Just to play devils advocate to everything I've been saying JD, if you do decide it might be best to keep the Boy and RHA apart for the first little while, you have to decide ahead of time how long are you going to cater to things EL wants?
If you do decide to back things off, you need to think about how long are you going to do that for? What do you think is fair for the sake of your relationship with EL, but still fair for the sake of your relationship with RHA?
Eventually, if things keep going the way they are now, the Boy and RHA will be a part of each others lives whether that's OK with EL or not...
you just have to figure out when that is, and maybe sit down and have a talk with EL about it, like mature adults if she can handle that... you know the talk: "I'm not doing this to hurt you, I'm moving on with my life, she's a good person and will treat our son in a way you can feel safe with... etc. etc" and hope for the best.
And I do agree with SH, she's not being a very good mother, let alone a very good person....
I would consult a child psychiatrist on this, if not at least some books on the topic. Personally, this is one of my sensitive points. Maybe when I start dating I will set an arbitrary date, like six months after I begin seeing a guy, if it feels like it may be serious. I just don't want my child to form his abilities to deal with women on the number of men coming in and out of mommy's life, and how she all thought each one was 'the one' and all the things kids see when their parents are trying recover from a failed relationship. My role as his mother will NEVER change regardless of what men may or may not be in my life, so why fuck it up? But I'm not sure what the professionals have to say about this one, and I would yield to their judgment - do you have a guardian ad litem and child psychologist involved in the divorce/custody proceedings?
And how would you feel if the tables were turned, if EL had been playing house with OG while they were together, and he saw that? You have a low opinion of OG because he's a cheating slime, but how can you really say "we'll agree that the boy only meets people of quality in each other's lives?"
As screwed up as my own separation is, I just try to avoid that "MY situation is different than HIS situation because" justification process. Maybe when this finally gets to the court and we discuss custody, I'll suggest a six-month rule, just for my child's benefit. I'm not sure the argument about bringing people into his life who will show him love is that wise if they may leave suddenly after he's made a permanent attachment to them, and never be permitted to see them again.
As for SH's comment that due to her mistakes, EL is not a good mother ... I agree that EL has some major mental issues, but throwing away her worthiness as a mother based on what may or may not have happened is rash. Even JD only assumes (based on this post) that she taught him to say that. It's possible he simply overheard her on the phone saying "RHA looks like a dog" to a friend and picked it up (two year olds run with stuff often). And JD admits that he's said and done some bad things in the past too which he regrets but no one has questioned whether he's a bad father as a result. It's easy to say "JD good, EL bad, case closed" but things are never that black and white. And the woman has got to be going through the roughest point of her life right now - granted, ALL of it brought upon herself - so whether you have an iota of pity for her or not, resist the urge to simply label her as a bad mother, end of story. I've considered myself a bad mother lots of times when I'm not in a good mental state but I would be furious if someone tried to take my child away from me based upon some of the mistakes I've made when I'm not thinking 100% clearly. Hell, when he found out I was leaving him, my X2B told my son, "how would you feel if mommy took you far far away from daddy and you never saw him again?" and caused that poor three-year-old months of trauma, but it was just another manifestation of the anger X2B was going through at the time and not a clear-cut statement that the guy deserves no interaction with the child he helped bring into this world.
These matters are never clear. Even when you have alcoholic welfare-abusing parents who belittle their chidren no end, the system doesn't take them away, so to brand EL as a bad mother for one comment she may or may not have made is premature.
Again, there are professionals who deal with these issues for a reason. Unless one of the commenters here has a doctorate in child psychology, I wouldn't listen to any of us.
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