So...Thursday Night's session and after.
Well. She went, she talked. She didn't announce "It's all over forever." So, that's positive.
She did say she didn't love me, and wasn't sure I loved her anymore no matter what I said. Fair enough.
It did not make me too happy to hear her say again she didn't love me. But I knew it, so...ok.
She said "she always wants me as a friend." Like I said - great, real high school thing there. I mean, sure that's nice, but come on.
She said she wouldn't leave or make any decisions until "he's better off." Now actually to me that was the worst thing of all. It sounded to me like she's already decided, she just doesn't want to leave until she thinks I can handle it. Great.
My counselor says I'm still his client and it's not really "marriage counseling" yet. Says she needs to be ready for that. Hmm. I need to talk to him about that on Tuesday (reading this, Dennis? :) ) because I thought that was the POINT. She's willing to do marriage counseling now. Why would we want to wait even a DAY longer if she's at least willing to talk once a week and see what can be done? I must be missing something.... SO we're doing solo again next week. Hmm.
She asked for "one night a week to do what I want." OK, but, I don't know if I should have pressed a bit more on that. "Let's be frank here, EL, what are you talking about - going out on a fuck-me date with your boyfriend?"
I know I've kept saying I'd find a way to deal with that, but let's at least be honest if that's what we're talking about.
But I didn't, of course. I let that sit for now and said sure, but in return I asked for 1 night a week where the two of us could be a family, do something, and have her be with me and thinking about me & us, and not him & her. That may be impossible for her to really do, but she at least agreed to try it.
It's all very not-good. Better than an outright dismissal and saying she's packing up and leaving, I guess, but not a whole lot more. She won't commit to saying she wants to stay married yet. OK, it's early, but it's because of this other guy out there treating her nice.
We talked about that on the ride home. I keep trying to get her to see - it's not fair to me if she lets this guy romance her and treat her all nice, but at the same time she REFUSES outright to let me even TRY. You know what I mean? He can take her out, sit with her, get all snuggly, start making his moves, they can get as physical as they want....and apparently that's OK and that's making her feel great.
But with me, I'm not allowed to talk romantically, hold her close, nothing. That's not fair and it's obviously setting it all up for failure. I hope she will come around to seeing that, but I'm not optimistic.
This isn't even high school, it's like Jr. High. "No, we're just friends, so we can't hold hands. OH, him? Well, he's my boyfriend and makes me feel special, so we can do whatever we want together." Except, of course, we're not 13....we're married.
I'm trying to deal. I'm trying to be patient and give her space and let her figure this out...but I don't know if that's the smart move.
Now, the weird thing on the ride home was apparently she either wants to just remain in denial about some things, or she really didn't fully understand what I tried to tell her Wednesday night about what I know she's doing with this guy.
We were talking about love, sex, and intimacy and I said, why does this guy get that "if it feels right" but with me, she won't even LET it "feel right." I said, that's not fair. She has to at least open herself to the freakin' possibility that it can "feel right" between us again.
She got a little mad and said something about how that's not what's going on between them. I said, "EL, stop it, remember I read things - I know things. Stop it. If you're having sex with him, and refusing to let yourself even feel ROMANTIC towards me - that's one-sided and the outcome is obvious." She repeated, "I'm not having sex with him." I said, "Yeah, ok, if you want to do a Biill Clinton definition, intercourse, I suppose not at least not as of Friday when I read what I read, but stop saying you're not having sex." She denied it again, somehow, so I said "OK, look, I know this is a mistake to say this outright, but what are you talking about??? How can you interpret the sentence, "--------------------------."" (a very graphic sentence I read in her mail cache that explicitly described oral sex) She got ANGRY. Said "THAT'S IT, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS ANY MORE!" And that was that.
OK...fine...but....didn't she understand I knew that? I don't get that, I just don't.
She did say something earlier in the car about how, "If this guy turns out to be a jerk, hey, that'll make things easier" so I guess she's not COMPLETELY blind to what he might or might not be saying/doing. Maybe she'll figure it out - he's in a fucked up marriage of his own & apparently not interested in fixing it (pr if he is, doing a bad job since he's cheating on his wife!) & he's trying to fuck a married woman. By my defition, that's a jerk.......isn't it?
She did say she didn't love me, and wasn't sure I loved her anymore no matter what I said. Fair enough.
It did not make me too happy to hear her say again she didn't love me. But I knew it, so...ok.
She said "she always wants me as a friend." Like I said - great, real high school thing there. I mean, sure that's nice, but come on.
She said she wouldn't leave or make any decisions until "he's better off." Now actually to me that was the worst thing of all. It sounded to me like she's already decided, she just doesn't want to leave until she thinks I can handle it. Great.
My counselor says I'm still his client and it's not really "marriage counseling" yet. Says she needs to be ready for that. Hmm. I need to talk to him about that on Tuesday (reading this, Dennis? :) ) because I thought that was the POINT. She's willing to do marriage counseling now. Why would we want to wait even a DAY longer if she's at least willing to talk once a week and see what can be done? I must be missing something.... SO we're doing solo again next week. Hmm.
She asked for "one night a week to do what I want." OK, but, I don't know if I should have pressed a bit more on that. "Let's be frank here, EL, what are you talking about - going out on a fuck-me date with your boyfriend?"
I know I've kept saying I'd find a way to deal with that, but let's at least be honest if that's what we're talking about.
But I didn't, of course. I let that sit for now and said sure, but in return I asked for 1 night a week where the two of us could be a family, do something, and have her be with me and thinking about me & us, and not him & her. That may be impossible for her to really do, but she at least agreed to try it.
It's all very not-good. Better than an outright dismissal and saying she's packing up and leaving, I guess, but not a whole lot more. She won't commit to saying she wants to stay married yet. OK, it's early, but it's because of this other guy out there treating her nice.
We talked about that on the ride home. I keep trying to get her to see - it's not fair to me if she lets this guy romance her and treat her all nice, but at the same time she REFUSES outright to let me even TRY. You know what I mean? He can take her out, sit with her, get all snuggly, start making his moves, they can get as physical as they want....and apparently that's OK and that's making her feel great.
But with me, I'm not allowed to talk romantically, hold her close, nothing. That's not fair and it's obviously setting it all up for failure. I hope she will come around to seeing that, but I'm not optimistic.
This isn't even high school, it's like Jr. High. "No, we're just friends, so we can't hold hands. OH, him? Well, he's my boyfriend and makes me feel special, so we can do whatever we want together." Except, of course, we're not 13....we're married.
I'm trying to deal. I'm trying to be patient and give her space and let her figure this out...but I don't know if that's the smart move.
Now, the weird thing on the ride home was apparently she either wants to just remain in denial about some things, or she really didn't fully understand what I tried to tell her Wednesday night about what I know she's doing with this guy.
We were talking about love, sex, and intimacy and I said, why does this guy get that "if it feels right" but with me, she won't even LET it "feel right." I said, that's not fair. She has to at least open herself to the freakin' possibility that it can "feel right" between us again.
She got a little mad and said something about how that's not what's going on between them. I said, "EL, stop it, remember I read things - I know things. Stop it. If you're having sex with him, and refusing to let yourself even feel ROMANTIC towards me - that's one-sided and the outcome is obvious." She repeated, "I'm not having sex with him." I said, "Yeah, ok, if you want to do a Biill Clinton definition, intercourse, I suppose not at least not as of Friday when I read what I read, but stop saying you're not having sex." She denied it again, somehow, so I said "OK, look, I know this is a mistake to say this outright, but what are you talking about??? How can you interpret the sentence, "--------------------------."" (a very graphic sentence I read in her mail cache that explicitly described oral sex) She got ANGRY. Said "THAT'S IT, WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT THIS ANY MORE!" And that was that.
OK...fine...but....didn't she understand I knew that? I don't get that, I just don't.
She did say something earlier in the car about how, "If this guy turns out to be a jerk, hey, that'll make things easier" so I guess she's not COMPLETELY blind to what he might or might not be saying/doing. Maybe she'll figure it out - he's in a fucked up marriage of his own & apparently not interested in fixing it (pr if he is, doing a bad job since he's cheating on his wife!) & he's trying to fuck a married woman. By my defition, that's a jerk.......isn't it?
There's more to write, but I've gotta split...rehearsal dinner tonight for her cousin's wedding tomorrow. The Boy is the ringbearer, looks adorable in his tux.
She's promised me to act like my wife and let it be a "date" that afternoon, too. Sure hope so.
posted by Fensty at 11:47 AM
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