Have I Been Emotionally Abused?
This is not sarcasm. Have I been emotionally abused?
I've been told I'm just one step away from beating my wife.
I'm told I'm one step away from beating my son.
I'm told that because I wanted to work hard for my family, and succeed in business, and suck up to my boss, that that meant I didn't love my wife and son.
I'm told that because I dared to ask my wife to stop going on vacations with her mom and our son, while leaving me at home...I was a scary control freak.
I'm told that because I found out my wife was cheating on me, and I decided to read her email, it meant I was the most terrible dangerous stalker that ever lived.
I'm told I terrorized my family and made them fear for their lives.
Mind you, there is no proof of any of this. This was all someone's opinion. I was told that because I sometimes got angry enough to kick the door or throw a wrench or a dishrack in an empty kitchen, I was a danger to myself and others.
I was told I could never change, that I'd always be this good for nothing abusive bastard.
I was told I was no longer attractive because I'd gained weight.
So, I ask you - was I emotionally abused?
Just playing devil's advocate here. I'm being provocative, sure, but I'm also sincere. I was told a lot of things that weren't true, in an effort to make me feel things were my fault that were not entirely so. I was fed an altered worldview of things by someone who should have been my partner in life and the one person who I could love and trust to be truthful and honest. I was made to believe I was a monster for being human.
I've been told I'm just one step away from beating my wife.
I'm told I'm one step away from beating my son.
I'm told that because I wanted to work hard for my family, and succeed in business, and suck up to my boss, that that meant I didn't love my wife and son.
I'm told that because I dared to ask my wife to stop going on vacations with her mom and our son, while leaving me at home...I was a scary control freak.
I'm told that because I found out my wife was cheating on me, and I decided to read her email, it meant I was the most terrible dangerous stalker that ever lived.
I'm told I terrorized my family and made them fear for their lives.
Mind you, there is no proof of any of this. This was all someone's opinion. I was told that because I sometimes got angry enough to kick the door or throw a wrench or a dishrack in an empty kitchen, I was a danger to myself and others.
I was told I could never change, that I'd always be this good for nothing abusive bastard.
I was told I was no longer attractive because I'd gained weight.
So, I ask you - was I emotionally abused?
Just playing devil's advocate here. I'm being provocative, sure, but I'm also sincere. I was told a lot of things that weren't true, in an effort to make me feel things were my fault that were not entirely so. I was fed an altered worldview of things by someone who should have been my partner in life and the one person who I could love and trust to be truthful and honest. I was made to believe I was a monster for being human.
posted by Fensty at 9:53 PM
30 Comments:
JD... First of all, you double posted :-)
Second, "Was I abused" is a question only you can answer. Or at least, I can't. I only know what you've shared here.
Here's a list I came up with from www.batteredmen.com:
Some things that are worth thinking about when you're wondering "Was I abused?" include:
* Did she embarass or humiliate you in front of other people, including your friends or family?
* Did she insist that anything you wanted for yourself was selfish and/or wrong?
* Did she withhold affection to "punish" you for any violations of her rules?
* Did she intimidate you in any way?
* Did she threaten you, or threaten to harm herself or anyone else, if/when you left?
* Did she force you to ask her for money, or take your money away from you? Did she have control of the family finances, so you didn't even know what or when money was being spent?
* Did she prevent you from taking a job you wanted, or going to school? Did she force you, either directly or through manipulation, to quit a job you had?
* Did she make jokes about her treatment of you, insist that she never did anything to hurt you, or blame you for her behavior?
* Did she treat you as if you were her servant?
* Did she ever make you do things you felt were wrong or illegal?
* Did she ever belittle your beliefs, or tell you that your faith is wrong?
* Did she make you leave social gatherings, or restrict your contact with your friends or family?
* Did she make you feel afraid, or like you needed to be "careful" around her?
* Did she make you feel guilty or ashamed about yourself, your feelings, your beliefs, or anything else that makes you a unique individual?
Any one of these is a sign of abuse. Only you can decide how many it takes to add up to proof that you were abused.
Signs that you're living with a verbal abuser.
* She seems irritated or angry with you several times a week or more although you hadn't meant to upset her. You are surprised each time. (She says she's not mad when you ask her what she's mad about, or she tells you in some way that it's your fault.)
* When you feel hurt or try to discuss your upset feelings with her, you don't feel as if the issue has been fully resolved, so you don't feel happy and relieved, nor do you have a feeling that you've "kissed and made up". (She says, "You're just trying to start an argument!" or in some other way expresses her refusal to discuss the situation.)
* You frequently feel perplexed and frustrated by her responses because you can't get her to understand your intentions.
* You are upset not so much about concrete issues -- how much time to spend with each other, where to go on vactaion, etc. -- as about the communication in the relationship: what she thinks you said and what you heard her say.
* You sometimes wonder, "What's wrong with me? I shouldn't feel so bad."
* She rarely, if ever, seems to want to share her thoughts or plans with you.
* She seems to take the opposite view from you on almost everything you mention, and her view is not qualified by "I think" or "I believe" or "I feel" -- as if your view were wrong and hers were right.
* You sometimes wonder if she perceives you as a separate person.
* You can't recall saying to her, "Cut it out!" or, "Stop it!"
* She is either angry or has "no idea of what you're talking about" when you try to discuss an issue with her.
If these signs seem familiar to you, it's a good bet you're being verbally abused. And that can be difficult to convince anyone else of, because some identifying traits of verbal abuse include:
* Mostly, it's done in secret. Your abuser usually doesn't do it where anyone else can witness it.
* It usually starts off with little stuff, then gets worse over time, so you get accustomed to it...and other people get accustomed to seeing you suffer it.
* It comes in many disguises.
* It consistently discounts your perceptions. No matter how cruel your partner is, she will deny that anything is wrong.
* Finally, physical abuse is always preceded by verbal abuse.
(End quote)
------------
Don't take that as a complete list, but it's a start.
As far as what I believe about abuse of men in general? It's highly underreported and unrecognized, and that's a shame.
It takes a lot of emotional support from loved ones and a good measure of courage to get over that kind of treatment. For that reason, I hope you don't see yourself the picture described above. But if you do... I really wish you the best. Don't be afraid to ask for support -- it sounds like you have friends and family who love you and want you to be happy.
-- Barbara
Whatever happened to good ol' generic "irreconcilable differences" as a reason for divorce?
Why does everything have to be classified as "abuse"?
Very few of those items would I categorize as "abuse". Most of it is just shitty behavior, the same kind of behavior that can occasionally be seen among best friends, relatives, etc.,etc.
But when you are married, it's immediately "abuse".
It dilutes the more important meanings associated with the term "abuse" (e.g. child abuse, drug abuse).
Gotta run. Time for self-abuse.
SH
No, everything need not be classified as abuse. A single incident of anything on the list probably would not be.
However, if there is a pattern of this behavior, then maybe it is. When it rises to the level of a kind of brainwashing -- where you tell a person over and over "You're lucky to have me because no one else wants you" -- I believe it is.
Whoever said that "when you're married, it's immediately abuse"? You just made that up yourself.
And who are you to say that drug abuse or another *abuse is more important?
I was told I was worthless to the point I dropped out of college and tried to kill myself. It was years and years ago, and there was no marriage involved, nor even infidelity involved -- at least not on my part.
What came later may have been worse in your view. It involved honest-to-gosh physical abuse. But you know what? That punching, shoving and hitting would never have happened if he hadn't "softened" me with the emotional abuse.
Belittle it all you want, but it took three years of hard work, plus a broken bone, punch to the eye and multiple apartment break-ins, before I was able to totally free myself from it. In the end, the physical stuff was relatively easy to get past. It was the emotional scarring that did the most damage and was far harder to heal.
So do I get your approval to use the "abuse" word? Or are you, too, going to tell me that I'm not worthy?
-- Barbara
You can use whatever word you want, Barbara. And so can I.
You criticize my use of "women", I criticize your use of "abuse".
By whatever name you wish to use, the behavior is something that the "victim" either chooses to endure, or chooses to retaliate against, or chooses to avoid (by leaving).
Unless someone has physically shackled someone else against their will (a crime), or physically threatened someone else (a crime), or commits bad behavior against a minor (who is legally dependent upon the bad behaver), I don't consider shitty behavior "abuse". Are anyone's rights being violated? No. Is the mere bad behavior against the law? No.
Child abuse is illegal.
Drug abuse is (often) illegal.
"Emotional" or "verbal abuse" is not illegal.
Hell, if "verbal abuse" was illegal, I could have Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell sent to prison.
My wife acted like a nutcase while she was in her affair. In some ways she is still a nutcase. But I'm not gonna walk out or accuse her of "abuse" simply by her yelling or criticizing or anything short of those illegal/assaultive acts I mentioned above and in other posts.
If it gets so bad, call the police if the behavior is criminal. If it's not that bad, but still too unpleasant, move OUT *before* it turns criminal, and BEFORE you have an affair.
Sorry, but I have no sympathy for people who refuse to escape a situation that is SO bad that they consider it "abuse". There are relatives, friends, shelters, etc. available for most people...*especially* women. In the end, the main person to blame can be found in the mirror.
SH
FYI, I *did* call the police after he broke into my apartment. They asked how I knew the guy. When I said I *** used to *** date him, the officer closed his notebook, put it in his jacket and said goodbye. You've got some pollyannaish views on how things work here in the real world.
You said: "Sorry, but I have no sympathy for people who refuse to escape a situation that is SO bad that they consider it "abuse"."
So... if I "put up" with it for three months before getting out, do I qualify for 50% of your sympathy? 33%? 25%?
What a merciless guy you seem to be. I hope you manage to live up to your own lofty standards. When you don't, I hope people around you are more generous with their compassion.
-- Barbara
uttering threats is a crime where I come from.
That's verbal, abuse, and also a crime.
I'm talking about marriage---not dating. Hell, if I'm dating and someone gets "abusive", why the hell date him/her again?? Quit it. Don't wait for it to get so bad that he breaks into your apartment.
Marriage, at least in JD's case and mine, involves kids, and one would expect a responsible parent to not run away at the first so-called "abusive" remarks.
At what point does criticism become "abuse"? Should criticism be prohibited because it might harm someone's oh-so-fragile "self-esteem"?? People need to grow a skin!
Case in point: A couple of nights ago, my wife was angry that she couldn't sign into new Netflix account she created for herself. She was basically angry at me, the computer, Netflix, the world, because she couldn't sign in.
It turns out she had registered her user name (email address) as:
(name)@verzion.net
VERZION???
VERZION???????
She is a notoriously poor speller, and also, for a pharmacist, she makes a hell of a lot of these kind of errors, at least at home. She supposedly is a great pharmacist and catches all sorts of errors made by others...but I'm constantly catching spelling and numerical errors on her personal paperwork. Suffice it to say that we maintain a lot of malpractice insurance!
Anyway, I yelled "Verzion??? VERZION??? VERZION?????????"
So I corrected the address and changed her password to MORON.
And I let her know it.
And for Anonymous, I already know threats (of harm) are crimes. That's why I excepted "physical threats" (i.e. threats of physical harm) in my post.
SH
Um...SH? Bro?
That's fucked up. That's the kind of thing that boggles MY mind. My wife NEVER got that kind of treatment from me. Ever.
Sorry, you can call me the pot calling the kettle black, but I think that WAS a really shitty, assinine thing to do. Where's your perspective?
Now - I get your point, is that wasn't ABUSE and I agree, that was you being a DICKHEAD, but I wouldn't call it abuse.
But anyway, I hear stories like that, or far worse, from most divorced women. EL decided she didn't want to be married anymore because I had a "bad temper."
Basically, to run with your example - I was more like your wife. I might rage and scream and bitch at the COMPUTER, or Netflix....but not a person.
So anyway, sorry my friend, but I can't support you on that reaction - that was an assholish move.... :)
JD
quick comment. I was in an emotionally abused marriage. Put up with it for 12 years but never noticed it...others did, but I never listened to them. Someone towards the end of my marriage suggested I call a shelter for help, but when I did, she told me, "yes that's the worst case of emotional abuse I've ever heard of, but no, we can't help you unless it gets physical." So, there are distinctions made, even in law, on what constitutes abuse or not. Everyone's personal opinion on what they consider abuse is based on their own personal reactions to their situations or situations of friends and family and everyone is free to their own opinion.
But I got off what I wanted to say there. I'm not sure any of what happened in this relationship was abuse (except for her havin the affair and not givin a shit if you knew about it...THAT'S mental abuse and it was ongoing). But the other things you listed, the way they (her and her family) treated you after they knew there was gonna be a split, that was just divorce mentality...it gets nasty. Nothing is held back, all punches are pulled. It's a survival of the fittest and it DOES get abusive. It's the nature of the beast.
Hobby
SH, right now I'm feeling thankful a thousand times over that I am not your wife. You wonder why I put up with what I did; I wonder why she puts up with what she does.
But enough about your criticism of others. How much do you do of yourself?
-- Barbara
SH (and JD sort of) --
I WOULD SO call that emotional abuse. Calling someone a MORON for a spelling mistake? Making her feel like absolute shit over a SPELLING mistake? Especially if you do it with yelling and screaming... TOTALLY emotional abuse.
Essentially, someone being a "Dickhead" as JD rightly calls it... how is that NOT abuse? Would you call your children a moron? Are you so fucking much better than her cause she mispelled verizon?
And you know what? It's not NECESSARILY emotional abuse, because if someone did that to me I'd dish it right back out...and I'd realise THEY'RE the moron for reacting to such a STUPID little thing... so NO, you wouldn't have "emotionally abused" me. But not EVERYONE reacts the same way when someone is trying to make them feel two inches tall... which is essentially what you did, on purpose.
Put it this way: Change up the situation slightly and suppose that SH, you HAD done that to a 4 year old child (your own, a niece, a nephew). Now do you see it being abusive?
It's all about perspective, and some people are more fragile. Doesn't mean anyone has the right to say "She (or he) shouldn't be so fragile, and should be able to take what I dish out cause it's not so bad". It's all perspective, and everyone is allowed to feel the way they feel. Just as YOU have a right to say that if someone did that exact thing to YOU it wouldn't be abuse, they have a right to say that if its done to THEM it is.
And you call that CRITICISM? That is NOT criticizing someone. Criticizing is supposed to be with a view to improve the situation, not make someone feel worthless. Maybe if you had said "Gee honey, when you get all bent out of shape like that you make careless little errors like transposing letters. Calm down and I'll show you why this isn't working" or something.
If she makes you that angry that you lose it completely and scream and yell, and call her a moron over a spelling mistake, why the hell did you marry her? Do you like torturing her and yourself? Seriously, doesn't it absolutely suck to be that angry on a regular basis?
Wow I don't usually get so bent out of shape and expose my sailor mouth, but today I'm ranting about this one. Sorry JD, you've seen the side I usually try to hide.
Okay, call me crazy, but I am becoming increasingly convinced that SH must be some sort of troll.
Maybe I am wrong and there really are people in this world who think it's okay to yell at their wife for a typo and call her a moron. And yet, it's so utterly reprehensible and disgusting how can I possibly believe it?
So, I'm going with the assumption he's a troll. Maybe some of what he says is true, maybe it's all bullshit intended to piss people off, or maybe it all is true and he really is so utterly scornful of the woman he is supposed to love more than anyone in the world. Either way, he's not really worth my attention anymore. At this point I think he's being deliberatly inflammatory to piss off the women who read this board and want to support/collaborate/advise/lecture JD and I don't think any of us really need that.
I think I put this into the email I sent you yesterday JD, or maybe I didn't, but I kinda think you should let the abuse angle go. Ellen screwed you over. She thinks you screwed her over. You both made some mistakes. Rather than dwell on it and build it up in your mind, I think you're better off chalking it up to part of the whole big mess and working on getting over the lot of it. It'll certainly make it easier to get on with your life, hopefully with RHA. :)
-RHG, still waiting for a response, btw...
OK, well, I'm not one to "intervene" in comments on the blog.
And since I already complained that I think SH's behavior there really was pretty shitty, I will now just stand up for his bona fides:
He's a real person. We've chatted offline. Like anyone else, he has his attitudes and opinions. I'm glad he feels like expressing here. I'm equally glad people who disagree (me included this time) express back.
So, don't stop. Don't change anything. But, just wanted to say, SH is a real person who has had his own wayward wife to deal with.
I'm not one to cast stones, obviously, as I have handled my situation in some rather childish ways at times, done some pretty petty and downright weird things.
So I'm not flaming ya SH, nor am I "defending" you - just letting the others here know that you're your own person who has his own reasons for having the opinions he has, right or wrong.
So - nope, he's not a troll. :)
RHG - the "abuse" post here was really, just playing devil's advocate. I certainly don't think I really was abused, but I was curious, if people would think I was.
I sorta agree with Sara - =I= don't feel I was abused, so, I wasn't. I feel my wife was an asshole in a lot of ways, and hurt me emotionally, and she felt she had reasons to do so, so, it's just "it is what it is."
Anyway, SH is as real as everyone else here. :)
-JD the BH
I had a long response almost ready to post this morning when I ran out of time, so I put my computer on standby, went to work, and expected to complete it when I got home. For one reason or another my computer shut down when I tried to wake it up, and I lost my entire reply. (Not that any of the women on this board are cryin' 'bout that!)
So, I'll re-create that reply later, but for now I'll just say that IN MY OPINION, having an affair is much worse "abuse" of JD than any so-called "abuse" that JD may have dished out earlier.
BTW, JD, has this thread brought your hit counter back to life??
SH
FWIW, I've never thought from anything JD has said that he was abusive. But then, maybe it's because I've been known to yell at the odd refrigerator, desk drawer or what have you. My husband always thinks that I'm angry at him when I do it, when I'm not. I'm angry at the eggs for falling out the fridge or for the drawer getting jammed or what have you. But it seems hard for me to really get that through to him *sigh*. Ideally, I guess, I wouldn't do that.
-- Barbara
SH--
I'm curious to hear your reply.
BUT, let me ask you this.
You say that somehow verbal abuse isn't quite so bad, and say "well, if it was it'd be a crime" (I'm paraphrasing, but accurately I think).
THEN you go on to say how HORRIBLE having an affair is (which I don't disagree with..)
Well, SH, I just feel the need to point out that having an affair: Also not illegal. If it was so horrible to cheat on someone, wouldn't it be illegal to do so? I mean, it can't be THAT bad if we don't punish it criminally.
Really, your wife (and EL I guess) didn't do anything illegal, so maybe you need to just grow a thicker skin, and really it's something you (the victim) "either chooses to endure, to retaliate against or to avoid (by leaving)".. so why should anyone feel any sympathy for you or JD for that matter?
SW, The Devil's Advocate.
Quick answer, SW:
Affairs involve lying and deception, and possible exposure to serious/fatal diseases.
Yelling and screaming does not.
I value honesty and health more than I value avoidance of conflict.
SH
SH: I would say that emotionally abusing someone by manipulating them and yelling and screaming at someone involves lying and deception (ie. you don't promise to love, honour and cherish someone and then EITHER scream at them and call them names, twist their minds around OR cheat on them..)
Secondly, Emotional abuse can probably also be argued to expose the "victim" to depression, which maybe isn't a "disease" but is a condition, and is probably more harmful/potentially fatal than almost every STD, most of which are treatable, and few of which are fatal (although ALL are pretty unpleasant I'm sure)
Also stress, which leads to hypertension and can ultimately cause heart disease, stroke... That's the #1 killer right there.
I'm not saying discussion, debate, even arguments and conflict are emotional abuse and should be avoided... but screaming, belittling, insulting, berrating, brow beating... that is not "conflict", and I'd say not healthy or productive.
I mean, really, aren't they both pretty unhealthy, dishonest, shitty, harmful behaviours that go against everything you promised one another in marriage vows? Can you really say that belittling someone by calling them a moron isn't a breach of that fundamental contract? Doesn't sound loving, cherishing, or really very respectful either...
Personally, I'd be devestated if my fiance showed he had NO respect for me either by screaming and belittling me OR by cheating on me...
Comments?
(And I really do enjoy getting your perspective, it's interesting to hear someone with a very different point of view)
I've posted my rants on this elsewhere on JD's blog, including, I believe, on the first instance of this double post. But I did want to say this:
In some states, infidelity IS a misdemeanor crime.
And while I agree that SH's example of verbally lambasting his wife over her error, including belittling her, was shitty behavior, I don't think it was abuse in and of itself. I think abuse, even in cases of physical and child abuse, generally indicates an ongoing cycle or series of events.
If my X2B had done that "verizon" thing, I'd probably have said quietly, "there's no need to be an asshole." Then he might have yelled, "you're fucking welcome, bitch" and shoved something off the desk onto the floor, walked out, not spoken to me for the rest of the evening and glowering at me whenever I walked past, continued to give me the silent treatment as we got ready for bed but talking under his breath to himself, then left the house early the next morning before I got up without a clue to where he might be going, returning home around two in a better mood, like nothing was wrong. If I'd had said that it would have been nice to know if he were going out, he would say, "I didn't think you'd care; besides, I had my cell."
Was that abusive behavior? Well, it would have taught me that if he yelled at me like that, just to hold my tongue, and his anger might pass in a few hours instead of a day. So I learned I had a choice to make as to how to deal with a seemingly benign issue.
Repeatedly, incidents like that over time, I believe, form a mentally or emotionally abusive behavior pattern, because I learned to keep my mouth shut and avoid the conflict rather than express myself even quietly and rationally. Therefore, when he did something I TRULY found inexcusable and I held him accountable for it, a real rage would fly, with threats and public humiliation and violence towards inanimate objects, like punching walls.
It's escalating behavior which is very difficult to pinpoint, identify, or stop outright, and certainly impossible to legislate as criminal.
I can agree with Kayten that *escalating* behavior is serious and could be legitimately viewed as "threatening". (But in our household, it has ALWAYS been [occasional] ranting and raving. It's nothing new. It's not escalating!)
BTW, if ranting and raving is abuse because it causes depression in the "abusee", then asking someone to bottle up one's emotions (generally considered harmful) due to a spouse's thin skin, could also be seen as "abusive" behavior. It's a two-way street.
But I have a question for those here with problem marriages:
Did you/spouse ever display a sense of humor? It seems that there is a distinct lack of humor in the situations described here.
The VERZION thing was loud, but it had an element of humor, as did the "MORON" thing. It's not like that was the first stupid little thing I've ever had to correct/solve....in fact, in the post I was preparing on Thurday morning I had written:
Only a few hours ago, at 1:00am, I was sleeping in my bed downstairs near the front door (we've slept in separate beds for years because she elbows/kicks me all night long, or else she wants to sleep with our *11 yr old* girl), and I'm awakened (awoken?) by the doorbell. Hell, a doorbell at 1:00 am is always bad news.
So I go to the door in my underwear and peek out. SHIT! It's the police!
[What the fuck did my wife do NOW?, I was thinking. What NOW?]
So I open the door and the cop says that within the preceding 5 minutes the 911 call center received a hangup call from our address, and they tried calling back and the line was busy.
I assured the cop that *I* had been asleep, and I told him I'd check with my wife.
So I went upstairs, opened her door, the room was dark, and said (not really expecting her to be awake), "Did you use the phone in the last few minutes?"
"Yes," she replied in the dark.
"What for?" I asked.
"I called (a place she calls once a day during the work week....figure it out)."
I thanked the cop and explained that my wife was responsible.
Apparently she tried to call in the dark and/or half-asleep, and the phone number she called ended in ...911. Sheesh.
Did I tell you about the time she punctured a hole in her foot by stepping on a metal wire/rod while MOWING THE LAWN BAREFOOT AND DRUNK???
Did I mention the time, during her first affair (actually, it was the last moment of her first affair), when her boss caught her and the OG screwing on the floor of her workplace?
Sorry, but that kind of stupidity deserves the MOST vocal criticism.
I actually helped extricate her from that mess, and saved her job...despite the fact she was cheating on me and she and the OG (both medical professionals) were TOO STUPID TO GO GET A MOTEL ROOM!
How about the multiple times, PRIOR TO MEETING ME 20 years ago, when she drove drunk and totalled cars, including once when she went through the windshield and partially severed her tongue?
How about the time a few years ago when a squad of police showed up at our door with search warrants? Without going into details, let's just say she had an affinity for Ace bandages and antibiotics. (Four years later, I'm STILL trying to extricate her from THAT mess!)
Well, before I lose THIS post, let me post it. Next time I'll tell you how she responded when I asked her (on Thursday morning), "Why do you put up with me?"
But for now, I'd like to hear from JD and the Peanut Gallery about the level of HUMOR in their marriages.
Oh, and did I tell you about having to close our MasterCard account a few weeks ago because my wife swore that the Hallmark store never handed it back to her?
I had to switch the card number on all of our automatic payments, PAYPAL, EZPass, Upromise, etc.,etc. Of course, a few weeks later she found the missing card on the floor of her bedroom.
SH
SH --
Yeah, those are all really stupid things to do...
and yes, you should say something.
My issue isn't communicating problems, it is unhealthy to bottle all that stuff up and sure, it probably would cause depression...
my question is why do you feel you have to respond by being a big, yelling, screaming, mean, rude, angry, dick about it? Don't you think there are less angry, more healthy, lets face it... better ways of expressing all this? Obviously your yelling and screaming isn't having the effect you want if she's still continuing to behave in just the way that bothers you... and it can't be healthy for you EITHER to get so angry... there have been countless studies done on people who are angry, and its been proven that their IQ's drop significantly when they're mad, their blood pressure goes up, and over time it takes an emotional and physical toll on the angry person... that's why there are anger managment classes.
The sense of humour is big, but the way you're portraying things, or maybe just the way I'm perceiving them, doesn't seem "funny". Screaming, calling people names, berrating people... those are all things that we try to teach children not to do. Why? Because its hurtful to someone. Because that isn't behaviour that society condones. You can have fun and laughter in a relationship without screaming and name calling.
It sounds like maybe it was funny for you, but it doesn't sound like it was funny for your wife really.
SH, direct question here: Don't you hate the feeling of being angry? Don't you feel that maybe there are ways of communicating in situations that would be less hurtful, less harmful, and more productive? Ever thought about anger management for you AND her?
Just like I used to tell my dad when he yelled at me... (and we're talking at age 5 and 6) "Just because you're making your point louder, doesn't make it any better".
Your wife might HEAR you better, but does it make her LISTEN any better?
A quick reply, Sara (I gotta get some stuff done around the house today):
In reality, my wife displays true anger (as opposed to irritation, frustration) much more frequently than I do. She gets ANGRY that there are some crumbs on the kitchen floor and no one else is as upset about it as she is and therefore no one else feels an URGENT NEED to clean up the crumbs.
I have always "talked to myself". I guess I picked up the habit from my long-widowed mother.
So I mumble, grumble, and gripe out loud. It's MY way of releasing stress and it's BETTER THAN HITTING, right?? It's better than having an affair, right?
I don't yell in people's faces or ears. They are free to ignore me, go into their own rooms, take a walk, etc., if they don't like it.
Maybe you should ask her why SHE gets ANGRY that no one unloaded the dishwasher even when there's still space for dirty dishes in the sink. She's friggin ANAL!!!
The things she wants done will eventually get done, but not on her anal schedule.
(e.g., why clean the entryway floor when there's still a lot of snow outside and the kids will be tracking in and out of the house all weekend? why not wait for the snow to melt off, or at least until the weekend is over and the kids are back in school?)
THE WOMAN IS ANAL.
She complains that she does all the laundry. Sometimes that is true, and the reason is: she doesn't want to teach the kids (and me) a lesson by NOT washing the clothes and letting us live with dirty clothes for a day or two. When I run out of clean clothes, I will wash my clothes. When my older girl runs out of clean clothes, she will have to get used to washing her clothes and not expecting someone else to do it. I don't expect my wife to wash my clothes--I will do it myself when I *need* clean clothes. (At this point, the only one who can't wash their own clothes is my 11 yr old.) Believe me, there is NO SHORTAGE OF CLOTHES in this household.
Later I'll post how she answered my question as to why she puts up with me.
SH
Why should your whole family have to leave the room/their home and be inconvenienced because you can't control your temper?
I guess if you don't see anything wrong with your behaviour (ie. at least I'm not hitting anyone) then there's not much hope of you changing it... but have you ever thought maybe you have some room to improve your life through better control of your emotions?
SH, I don't think I've yet seen you post one kind thing about your wife. If you hate her as much as you seem to, why don't you do both of you a favor and leave? It seems like you can't mention your wife without telling everyone why she is stupid/incapable/slutty or whatever. Nice marriage. How's that working for you?
-- Barbara
Okay SH--- I can't take the suspense anymore.
Why does she put up with you?
And as Barbara sort of eludes too... if she's so slutty/stupid/whatever (ie if she's the one MAKING you treat her the way you treat her), why do you put up with HER?
Sara and Barbara...you seem to think that our entire lives are the incidents I describe here. Not true. Most of the time our lives are terribly boring. The incidents actually break up the boredom.
Why does she put up with me?
"Because I truly, truly deeply love you. But sometimes I just can't stand you."
And the feeling is mutual.
What does she want?
"I want to be worshipped!"
Hahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahaha.
"Hell, I don't even worship your (non-existent) almighty God! You think I'm gonna worship YOU??", I replied.
"I mean: I want to be CHERISHED!", she said.
You know, it is really, really hard to "cherish" someone who gets pissed off by the things she gets pissed off about. I don't demand that she do my clothes, or clean the floor, or fix my meals. I don't get pissed off if we run out of ice cream. I get pissed off when I have to bail her out of some kind of trouble caused by stupidity. Why shouldn't I feel that way?
I think that our kids actually benefit from our behavior. They realize that even if you get mad at each other, even if you yell at each other, even if you INSULT each other, even if you lie/cheat/steal and get caught, you can still love each other and and realize that there are things more important than all of those problems.
I am always suspicious of couples that "get along" so perfectly that they never argue. Hell, how boring is THAT!
SH
Sara and Barbara...you seem to think that our entire lives are the incidents I describe here. Not true. Most of the time our lives are terribly boring. The incidents actually break up the boredom.
Why does she put up with me?
"Because I truly, truly deeply love you. But sometimes I just can't stand you."
And the feeling is mutual.
What does she want?
"I want to be worshipped!"
Hahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahaha.
"Hell, I don't even worship your (non-existent) almighty God! You think I'm gonna worship YOU??", I replied.
"I mean: I want to be CHERISHED!", she said.
You know, it is really, really hard to "cherish" someone who gets pissed off by the things she gets pissed off about. I don't demand that she do my clothes, or clean the floor, or fix my meals. I don't get pissed off if we run out of ice cream. I get pissed off when I have to bail her out of some kind of trouble caused by stupidity. Why shouldn't I feel that way?
I think that our kids actually benefit from our behavior. They realize that even if you get mad at each other, even if you yell at each other, even if you INSULT each other, even if you lie/cheat/steal and get caught, you can still love each other and and realize that there are things more important than all of those problems.
I am always suspicious of couples that "get along" so perfectly that they never argue. Hell, how boring is THAT!
SH
There is a problem posting to this board. Delete the duplicate, JD.
SH
Again a collosal difference of opinions... let me illustrate.
Just this past weekend here's what Scott and I did:
Visited with 2 friends,
Bowling,
Boat Show,
Toboganning,
Errands (pick up a few things, laundry, general house cleaning, the general weekend stuff)
Dinner out together,
Cooked two nice meals together,
2 cheesy movies (GhostBusters and Mr. Deeds)
Swimming + Hot Tubbing, and
ended with Sunday night Kayaking.
Not boring, yet no fighting (I don't think there was a cross word said all weekend.. except maybe a couple of mutual groans about the amount of laundry we had to do).
I find it kind of odd that the only excitement you get is fighting with your wife? Wouldn't you find it far more enjoyable to do something for excitement like ride a giant rollercoaster (or whatever you like to do for fun) instead of getting your fun from that?
I'm not some kind of naive kid who thinks that people NEVER should fight. Everyone has to disagree about something now and then, of course. But isn't what you're teaching your kids that its okay to make people feel they love feel bad about themselves, as long as they perceive that they are "right"?
I mean, do you honestly not think you can have a happy, loving, exciting, fun marriage/relationship without screaming and insulting and your wife almost giving you herpes?
Maybe I just get enough conflict at work every day that i don't need to bring it home...
Heya Mac, welcome back, I replied (kinda/sorta) to this in the latest post.
Not really, opened a new topic and rant, I guess, but it was at least nominally in reply to your post.
JD
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