The letter. Second draft. Actually 3rd, some suggestions came in Email and are already incorporated.
(I just edited this post a bit, so if you read it and were about to comment, re-read it again as there are some more changes from a few minutes ago, but I didn't want a whole new entry.)
OK. It's longer, which I didn't want. But it's not negative about me as much, focuses on positives, on what she's doing, on the need to make a choice, and that the choice is all hers, but needs to be made soon.
I've decided I'll try to give it to her Sunday if possible, then go work in the yard for awhile, she can read it at leisure, whatever.
She came home early tonight, like 8pm. No idea who she was with or what she was doing, if anything. Didn't ask. Don't know what to make of it. Seemed in a normal mood, chatty with me as usual, animated talking about work.
I'm not sure if she was in a good mood 'cuz she was just out with her boyfriend, or what. I don't plan to worry about it too much 'till we get to this letter, and start talking about it.
I'm taking her dad down to the Philly airport at 3am this morning, then coming back to crash some more. She's going shopping with her Mom and The Boy for a couple hours, be back around 6. I'll try to have a movie rented to watch and we can just relax. Sunday we'll see what happens...
Anyway, here's the letter. For those tuning in just now, this is the 2nd draft. It's an ultimatum, though still a low-key one (2 weeks is still an eternally long time) but also a legal maneuver to codify the fact that I do not consent the affiar and consider us legally seperated until it ends, if it ever does. It also will hopefully get her attention.
Though, honestly, I still think she'll just read it and say, "You're right, it's over...The Guy and I are in love, for real, he's leaving his wife for me...so thanks anyway, let's just do the divorce." I'm not just saying that to mentally prepare for the worst, either...I pretty strongly believe it to be true.
Anyway, here. Sorry, like I said, it's even longer...
---------
EL:
There are a lot of things that need to be said, but I don’t want this to be too long. It will be anyway, I’m sure. Take your time, read it over.
After reading this, you can still have your space. Maybe more, depending on what you might decide after reading this. Nothing needs to change immediately. This letter is not a demand to “choose right now!” I love you and I’m trying hard to respect your need for space.
But, EL, you need to start thinking about your decision. Either you don’t care about the marriage anymore, the past we’ve had and the future we could have, or you do.
If you care about those things, and want to commit to trying to save our marriage, you have to stop the affair. Nothing can move forward, nothing can ever get better, unless you stop seeing The Other Guy. It’s impossible. You can’t try to repair a damaged marriage with someone else in the picture.
So that is one thing that you can choose to do – stop the affair, break it off, and commit to working with me to repair our marriage and get on with our lives together. Counseling together, spending time together and with The Boy, and leaving The Other Guy alone. Sure, it might not work out for us – that’s an unfortunate reality. We can only try our best and hope that what’s right to happen will happen. But it can not possibly work with The Other Guy in the picture, it’s a sham to even try.
You’ve told me a little about how he makes you feel, and why, and I understand that. But if we try and fail, he’ll still be there. If we’re going to try, you just need to stop it for now, and give us a fair chance to succeed in our marriage - if that’s what you want to do.
I’ve made some changes – they will continue, and they’ll get better. I don’t claim they fix everything – I wanted to get a lot more of the house cleaned, I’m still not doing a lot of the laundry, that sort of thing. But…I’ve made some good starts. They will continue.
I’m improving my physical health. That’s not going to stop either. This situation was the push I needed, I’ve been procrastinating since 2000 about getting down to 190lbs and now I’m going to. I told myself then I didn’t want to be in my 30’s and obese, but let it slide for 4 years anyway – no more! That’s a promise to MYSELF, not to you. A little bit for The Boy, too. I want to be there to run around the yard playing football or soccer with him, ride bikes, go hiking, Boy Scouts, everything. I will be able to do that. I’ve lost 32lbs in the last 4 weeks, believe it or not…soon that will drop to about 3 or 4lbs a week, then even lower. But by next August I will weigh 190lbs, my cholesterol will be under 150, and my resting pulse will be 60. I will be able to ride my bike for several miles, I’ll be able to run a mile or two. These are my goals, and I will make them!
I’ve taken steps to improve my mental state – counseling, doctors, and so on. I feel better already, and it will only get better and better. I’m also doing that for myself, and it’s not going to stop.
I’m noticing you and The Boy and what you mean to me a lot more than before. That’s not going to stop. And remember, that happened BEFORE I knew any of this.
Same as you, I’m dressing better to feel better about myself, and possibly earn more respect from my coworkers and my wife. Tucking in my shirt might not seem a big deal, but I’m not trying to hide my waist anymore. It feels good. That’s not going to stop.
You might think I’m still addicted to the computer right now, but you might not realize – it’s not playing games or wasting time on the Internet anymore, it’s just writing in my journal to keep myself from bothering you (much) and thinking the same thoughts all the time. I write them down and I can move on to other things to think about. I’d much rather be snuggled on the couch with the girl I love, and our son…or out together, or other things with you.
That’s one of the worst parts of all this, you know – just when I realized what you mean to me, you told me it’s not mutual anymore, and want all this space. You think it’s a knee-jerk reaction to your telling me that, and to The Other Guy, but it’s not. I started feeling this way a week before you left for Disney, and missed you both so bad that weekend it hurt.
So - I’m improving all aspects of myself, and that’s not going to stop.
I’d like you to stay and try work on the marriage, and you can watch as these changes continue, and I’m sure these changes will snowball into even more, bigger, better changes! But even if you go – they’re not going to stop. This situation has given me the push I need to be a better man, and I will. For myself, and my future. But I want that future to be with you. You, The Boy, and our marriage will benefit from these changes as much as me alone, and it will mean more if we’re together again. I’m doing this for myself, but because I love you. If that makes any sense.
I don’t need to make any choices about this – what I want, is what I wanted when I came to talk to you Sunday after your trip, before I knew how bad it really was, or about The Other Guy – apparently even before you really knew how you felt about The Other Guy – and how you felt about me.
And that is: To get our life back to the fun, loving, happy way that it was. I know we can do it if you want to, if you try as hard as I do – I believe we can do it. We were best friends and lovers for years before the marriage and we can be again. We have an amazing history that was just beginning, especially our journey as parents. From the big Disney trips and Hawaii, to snuggling on the couch watching a movie that you picked out, to new things we’ll do together with The Boy, watching him grow into a boy, a teen, a man – we can get back to that, do it all again, together as a family.
I’m changing into a better man, it’s true, but mostly just by rediscovering the man I was. With the new additions of a child I love, a home, a well paying job, and all the things that come along with those. I was never a “bad father” EL - think of some of the stories of truly bad parents we hear about, from people we know and even worse things on the news. But now, I’ll be a really great one. I’ve found that part of myself again.
It’s also morally wrong to have an affair while you are married. It’s wrong to have an affair with a married man, no matter what his situation is, when he’s married. I’m sorry, that’s just the way it is. You’d have thought the same, before this happened. I don’t know what changed you that you don’t think that now. Maybe you DO still think that, and there are things I don’t understand that make it make sense. You won’t talk to me, so I just don’t know - so I wish we could talk about it. It’s wrong, I don’t agree with it, but I understand, because I love you.
Then, there is the other choice that you have, of course – that you don’t care about those things, and that you want to continue the affair. That means we are separated. In Pennsylvania, separation doesn’t require separate addresses and living apart. I’m not moving out, and you don’t have to either if you don’t want to. For The Boy’s sake, I hope you will not. But as long as you are having this affair – that’s the same as saying the marriage is over, that you want out – so as long as that affair is happening, we are separated but living in the same home. I do not consent to it, I never did, so that’s what it means – separated, but living in the same house.
How long can that go on? Not long. Someone will have to file for divorce.
I can’t shake the feeling you are trying to get me to be the one to file. It’s all the comments you keep making about “Maybe you should leave for awhile” and “Well, if that’s what YOU want.” I’m not sure if that’s true, or if it is, why – but it might be because you feel that if I do the filing, then it makes me the “bad guy” who is giving up his marriage and ruining everything, that you can then feel better about things because it’s not you asking for divorce. That you get a pass, that your family (and mine) will all blame me, and so on. Is there any truth to that? Because you won’t – you refuse – to talk about any of this, I don’t know what you are thinking and feeling. If a divorce is what you want, we need to confront that.
It is up to you to choose how to proceed now. Think it all over, decide what happens next. Give it another week or two, but please – no longer than that. We need to have a conversation before November 20th.
It’s not fair to either one of us, to The Boy, our familes, even The Other Guy and his wife…to stretch it out longer than that.
I’m sorry if this is pressure, but we need to start the decision process. I’m sorry, but my professional life is suffering and that won’t help matters, so I can’t keep this up.
Maybe there are other decisions you can make, I don’t know – I’m NOT saying what it has to be. I don’t see any other options, but maybe you do. I’m open to suggestions. We can talk about it when you are ready, but we have to talk about it. It can’t just keep going the way it is.
My actions and my choices may have affected yours, but this is where we are now:
You chose not to tell me that things were getting this bad.
You chose to bottle up your feelings.
You chose not to tell me how you felt.
You chose not to talk to me, or write a letter, or have someone else talk to me if you were afraid to, or too angry to.
You chose to let yourself feel “fond” of The Other Guy, you chose to go out with him, you chose to let it become adultery….and you may choose how to proceed.
Don’t say, “Whatever you want” or “If that’s what you want” or other things like that, please.
I want what I have wanted since that Sunday – to be the best husband and father I can be. To make my wife and son happy. To show you over time and by my actions that I never stopped loving you, even if I did take things for granted, and didn’t show it enough. Over time, and by my actions, I’d like to help you rediscover, or even completely re-create, feelings of love and affection for me. You say you never stopped being my friend – that’s a huge thing. It means there are still good feelings and memories to work with. Isn’t that a good starting point? It was the first time we met and fell in love.
I FORGIVE you for what you’ve done, because there are two people in a marriage and they both bear responsibility for things that happen, and I SEEK FORGIVENESS from you for not always being the husband and father you and The Boy deserve.
But I did not, and will not, CONSENT to the affair. If you want to come back to the marriage and work on a future together, we will put this behind us, put the whole last two years behind us, and start from today.
I love you, regardless of what has happened. I will never hold it against you in our marriage, and I will never let anyone else do that either. I’ve made some mistakes, and my only wish is that you’ll decide you may be making one too, and come back and commit to TRYING – just TRYING – to save our marriage. Together.
(Signed of course, Love, JD)
OK. It's longer, which I didn't want. But it's not negative about me as much, focuses on positives, on what she's doing, on the need to make a choice, and that the choice is all hers, but needs to be made soon.
I've decided I'll try to give it to her Sunday if possible, then go work in the yard for awhile, she can read it at leisure, whatever.
She came home early tonight, like 8pm. No idea who she was with or what she was doing, if anything. Didn't ask. Don't know what to make of it. Seemed in a normal mood, chatty with me as usual, animated talking about work.
I'm not sure if she was in a good mood 'cuz she was just out with her boyfriend, or what. I don't plan to worry about it too much 'till we get to this letter, and start talking about it.
I'm taking her dad down to the Philly airport at 3am this morning, then coming back to crash some more. She's going shopping with her Mom and The Boy for a couple hours, be back around 6. I'll try to have a movie rented to watch and we can just relax. Sunday we'll see what happens...
Anyway, here's the letter. For those tuning in just now, this is the 2nd draft. It's an ultimatum, though still a low-key one (2 weeks is still an eternally long time) but also a legal maneuver to codify the fact that I do not consent the affiar and consider us legally seperated until it ends, if it ever does. It also will hopefully get her attention.
Though, honestly, I still think she'll just read it and say, "You're right, it's over...The Guy and I are in love, for real, he's leaving his wife for me...so thanks anyway, let's just do the divorce." I'm not just saying that to mentally prepare for the worst, either...I pretty strongly believe it to be true.
Anyway, here. Sorry, like I said, it's even longer...
---------
EL:
There are a lot of things that need to be said, but I don’t want this to be too long. It will be anyway, I’m sure. Take your time, read it over.
After reading this, you can still have your space. Maybe more, depending on what you might decide after reading this. Nothing needs to change immediately. This letter is not a demand to “choose right now!” I love you and I’m trying hard to respect your need for space.
But, EL, you need to start thinking about your decision. Either you don’t care about the marriage anymore, the past we’ve had and the future we could have, or you do.
If you care about those things, and want to commit to trying to save our marriage, you have to stop the affair. Nothing can move forward, nothing can ever get better, unless you stop seeing The Other Guy. It’s impossible. You can’t try to repair a damaged marriage with someone else in the picture.
So that is one thing that you can choose to do – stop the affair, break it off, and commit to working with me to repair our marriage and get on with our lives together. Counseling together, spending time together and with The Boy, and leaving The Other Guy alone. Sure, it might not work out for us – that’s an unfortunate reality. We can only try our best and hope that what’s right to happen will happen. But it can not possibly work with The Other Guy in the picture, it’s a sham to even try.
You’ve told me a little about how he makes you feel, and why, and I understand that. But if we try and fail, he’ll still be there. If we’re going to try, you just need to stop it for now, and give us a fair chance to succeed in our marriage - if that’s what you want to do.
I’ve made some changes – they will continue, and they’ll get better. I don’t claim they fix everything – I wanted to get a lot more of the house cleaned, I’m still not doing a lot of the laundry, that sort of thing. But…I’ve made some good starts. They will continue.
I’m improving my physical health. That’s not going to stop either. This situation was the push I needed, I’ve been procrastinating since 2000 about getting down to 190lbs and now I’m going to. I told myself then I didn’t want to be in my 30’s and obese, but let it slide for 4 years anyway – no more! That’s a promise to MYSELF, not to you. A little bit for The Boy, too. I want to be there to run around the yard playing football or soccer with him, ride bikes, go hiking, Boy Scouts, everything. I will be able to do that. I’ve lost 32lbs in the last 4 weeks, believe it or not…soon that will drop to about 3 or 4lbs a week, then even lower. But by next August I will weigh 190lbs, my cholesterol will be under 150, and my resting pulse will be 60. I will be able to ride my bike for several miles, I’ll be able to run a mile or two. These are my goals, and I will make them!
I’ve taken steps to improve my mental state – counseling, doctors, and so on. I feel better already, and it will only get better and better. I’m also doing that for myself, and it’s not going to stop.
I’m noticing you and The Boy and what you mean to me a lot more than before. That’s not going to stop. And remember, that happened BEFORE I knew any of this.
Same as you, I’m dressing better to feel better about myself, and possibly earn more respect from my coworkers and my wife. Tucking in my shirt might not seem a big deal, but I’m not trying to hide my waist anymore. It feels good. That’s not going to stop.
You might think I’m still addicted to the computer right now, but you might not realize – it’s not playing games or wasting time on the Internet anymore, it’s just writing in my journal to keep myself from bothering you (much) and thinking the same thoughts all the time. I write them down and I can move on to other things to think about. I’d much rather be snuggled on the couch with the girl I love, and our son…or out together, or other things with you.
That’s one of the worst parts of all this, you know – just when I realized what you mean to me, you told me it’s not mutual anymore, and want all this space. You think it’s a knee-jerk reaction to your telling me that, and to The Other Guy, but it’s not. I started feeling this way a week before you left for Disney, and missed you both so bad that weekend it hurt.
So - I’m improving all aspects of myself, and that’s not going to stop.
I’d like you to stay and try work on the marriage, and you can watch as these changes continue, and I’m sure these changes will snowball into even more, bigger, better changes! But even if you go – they’re not going to stop. This situation has given me the push I need to be a better man, and I will. For myself, and my future. But I want that future to be with you. You, The Boy, and our marriage will benefit from these changes as much as me alone, and it will mean more if we’re together again. I’m doing this for myself, but because I love you. If that makes any sense.
I don’t need to make any choices about this – what I want, is what I wanted when I came to talk to you Sunday after your trip, before I knew how bad it really was, or about The Other Guy – apparently even before you really knew how you felt about The Other Guy – and how you felt about me.
And that is: To get our life back to the fun, loving, happy way that it was. I know we can do it if you want to, if you try as hard as I do – I believe we can do it. We were best friends and lovers for years before the marriage and we can be again. We have an amazing history that was just beginning, especially our journey as parents. From the big Disney trips and Hawaii, to snuggling on the couch watching a movie that you picked out, to new things we’ll do together with The Boy, watching him grow into a boy, a teen, a man – we can get back to that, do it all again, together as a family.
I’m changing into a better man, it’s true, but mostly just by rediscovering the man I was. With the new additions of a child I love, a home, a well paying job, and all the things that come along with those. I was never a “bad father” EL - think of some of the stories of truly bad parents we hear about, from people we know and even worse things on the news. But now, I’ll be a really great one. I’ve found that part of myself again.
It’s also morally wrong to have an affair while you are married. It’s wrong to have an affair with a married man, no matter what his situation is, when he’s married. I’m sorry, that’s just the way it is. You’d have thought the same, before this happened. I don’t know what changed you that you don’t think that now. Maybe you DO still think that, and there are things I don’t understand that make it make sense. You won’t talk to me, so I just don’t know - so I wish we could talk about it. It’s wrong, I don’t agree with it, but I understand, because I love you.
Then, there is the other choice that you have, of course – that you don’t care about those things, and that you want to continue the affair. That means we are separated. In Pennsylvania, separation doesn’t require separate addresses and living apart. I’m not moving out, and you don’t have to either if you don’t want to. For The Boy’s sake, I hope you will not. But as long as you are having this affair – that’s the same as saying the marriage is over, that you want out – so as long as that affair is happening, we are separated but living in the same home. I do not consent to it, I never did, so that’s what it means – separated, but living in the same house.
How long can that go on? Not long. Someone will have to file for divorce.
I can’t shake the feeling you are trying to get me to be the one to file. It’s all the comments you keep making about “Maybe you should leave for awhile” and “Well, if that’s what YOU want.” I’m not sure if that’s true, or if it is, why – but it might be because you feel that if I do the filing, then it makes me the “bad guy” who is giving up his marriage and ruining everything, that you can then feel better about things because it’s not you asking for divorce. That you get a pass, that your family (and mine) will all blame me, and so on. Is there any truth to that? Because you won’t – you refuse – to talk about any of this, I don’t know what you are thinking and feeling. If a divorce is what you want, we need to confront that.
It is up to you to choose how to proceed now. Think it all over, decide what happens next. Give it another week or two, but please – no longer than that. We need to have a conversation before November 20th.
It’s not fair to either one of us, to The Boy, our familes, even The Other Guy and his wife…to stretch it out longer than that.
I’m sorry if this is pressure, but we need to start the decision process. I’m sorry, but my professional life is suffering and that won’t help matters, so I can’t keep this up.
Maybe there are other decisions you can make, I don’t know – I’m NOT saying what it has to be. I don’t see any other options, but maybe you do. I’m open to suggestions. We can talk about it when you are ready, but we have to talk about it. It can’t just keep going the way it is.
My actions and my choices may have affected yours, but this is where we are now:
You chose not to tell me that things were getting this bad.
You chose to bottle up your feelings.
You chose not to tell me how you felt.
You chose not to talk to me, or write a letter, or have someone else talk to me if you were afraid to, or too angry to.
You chose to let yourself feel “fond” of The Other Guy, you chose to go out with him, you chose to let it become adultery….and you may choose how to proceed.
Don’t say, “Whatever you want” or “If that’s what you want” or other things like that, please.
I want what I have wanted since that Sunday – to be the best husband and father I can be. To make my wife and son happy. To show you over time and by my actions that I never stopped loving you, even if I did take things for granted, and didn’t show it enough. Over time, and by my actions, I’d like to help you rediscover, or even completely re-create, feelings of love and affection for me. You say you never stopped being my friend – that’s a huge thing. It means there are still good feelings and memories to work with. Isn’t that a good starting point? It was the first time we met and fell in love.
I FORGIVE you for what you’ve done, because there are two people in a marriage and they both bear responsibility for things that happen, and I SEEK FORGIVENESS from you for not always being the husband and father you and The Boy deserve.
But I did not, and will not, CONSENT to the affair. If you want to come back to the marriage and work on a future together, we will put this behind us, put the whole last two years behind us, and start from today.
I love you, regardless of what has happened. I will never hold it against you in our marriage, and I will never let anyone else do that either. I’ve made some mistakes, and my only wish is that you’ll decide you may be making one too, and come back and commit to TRYING – just TRYING – to save our marriage. Together.
(Signed of course, Love, JD)
posted by Fensty at 10:42 PM
5 Comments:
I agree...A LOT Better! If I were to place myself into your wife's shoes, (Which is easy to do given that my husband and myself were in a very similar situation many years ago) I would say that this letter is definitely going to make her think, make her reevaluate her decisions of late, and hopefully realize what is most important.
I also agree with the other comments I've read in this blog that you should stay nearby when she receives the letter in case she would like to talk. Also, I would hand it to her directly instead of leaving it lying around for her to find. That way you will know for sure that she has seen it and she can't deny it later.
The only thing that I can find wrong with this letter is a very petty mistake "I’m doing this for myself, but because I love you. If that makes any sense." I think you meant it to say "I'm doing this NOT for myself, but because I love you". Atleast that is what I thought you meant. Yeah, I know, petty isn't it. :)
Well, yeah. I think I want to add one or two more bits about our history together and good times, but only if I can find something else to take out to make shorter.
And that wasn't a typo, I did mean, "I'm doing it for myself, but because I love you." As in, it's a change that I'm making because I want to, for me, to make me better - but it's because of my love for my wife that I've decided I SHOULD do it. I guess. I'll change it to "but also because I love you."
I will definitely give it to her Sunday morning, or maybe tonight when she gest home, then go out of her hair for awhile.
But, I'm still not optimistic, though I appreciate your words. I know she's in love with the guy, so why on Earth would she choose me over him, which is basically what I'm asking her to do - make a choice between her marriage (and me) and the new guy she's giddy in love with.
There's really only one way that's gonna go.
This is some sad shit to read. It is sadder yet that you are fooling yourself into thinking that there may be a chance. When the love is gone there is no getting it back, it just doesn't work that way.
You vacillate between trying to do things to fix the unfixable and planning to screw the shit out of the bitch in court. Neither will happen. If you do the nasty court thing the child will be caught in the middle, visitation will be a burden because she will be uncooperative and she will have custody. It is going to cost you money, about half of all that you have, including your 401k and stock options. You will get half of her debt. If she has any retirement, you will get half of that. You will pay child support, a lot more than it actually costs to raise the child and she will spend the money on whatever it is that she wants.
The best plan of action is to get a separation agreement that is favorable to you. She may concede things if she really wants out. You might get her to agree to joint custody, a reasonable amount of child support. She may leave your retirement and stock options alone.
Keep making yourself a better person for you and the women you will have relationships with in the future. Take solace in the fact that once you dump her, the guy that is doing her will dump her too. Be a man, get over it and tell her to get the fuck out.
The letter isn't going to make any difference. The love is gone. Maybe you salvage a decent relationship between the two of you and your child. Don't babysit for her so she can go out suck some other guys dick while they're driving down the road. That is really demeaning to you.
All true, all good points, and yeah, "screwing the bitch in court" is just something I'm saying to myself to make it feel better...but she doesn't know that.
So, when the shit really does come down, I'm sure we'll try to mediate a divorce as easily as possible, divide the debts, joint custody, and reasonable child support, and then just go.
But until then, I can fantasize all I want about destroying her life and bankrupting her, OK?
All true, all good points, and yeah, "screwing the bitch in court" is just something I'm saying to myself to make it feel better...but she doesn't know that.
So, when the shit really does come down, I'm sure we'll try to mediate a divorce as easily as possible, divide the debts, joint custody, and reasonable child support, and then just go.
But until then, I can fantasize all I want about destroying her life and bankrupting her, OK?
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