Another post about spying... Yeah, I've got 'tude!
This is why I am now an advocate of spying. :)
(in SOME cases, anyway)
This is kinda/sorta in reply to a comment about how one's self esteem is destroyed by a cheating spouse.
My self esteem returned in full force when I realized, via reading my wife's email and chat logs, that she was a complete and total loon. Nay, skank!
That it was HER self esteem that was so trashed and broken, and her mental processes so damaged, that not only helped a little to end my marriage, but also explained her refusal to even consider any other options but instant divorce.
That there was no WAY I'd want to have stayed married to her knowing what I know now, even if I had had the option. Hey, I concede that it was HER decision, maybe even her RIGHT, to leave without even TRYING to reconcile, if that's what she wanted. But I also say, she wouldn't have if she wasn't so fuckin' nuts.
Anyway...
The ends may not justify the means, two wrongs may not make a right, but MY mental health is more important than my wife's right to privacy, as I see it.
I dare anyone to argue with me. How many people on this blog have told me, "Her problems aren't your problems, let it go."
Well, my invasion of her privacy is HER problem, not mine. She wasn't/isn't smart enough to take the simplest precautions that I taught her over the years, or that ANYONE could find out about for themselves in 15 minutes of Google searching, well, that's her problem.
So, that's how I let it go. I spied, and felt better, and spied more, and felt even more better.
And at no point have I ever felt bad about doing it. I don't feel I've "sunk to a new low." I have no desire to spy on my new girlfriend, or anyone in my past, or anyone else. I haven't even put my new girlfriend's name - or anyone else I dated before meeting her - in Google yet, and EVERYONE does that sooner or later, don't they? :)
So, screw it, I feel great about spying on her every step of the way. I've got the "proof" I wanted, and it's all legal. Knowing what she was thinking and saynig to people put me in the right place at the right time to "accidentally" find out lots of things that I needed to.
Hmm, not related to actual spying, but just another interesting thing I never got around to blogging, while cleaning out our "spare room" last weekend and bagging up a lot of EL's old clothes and stuff for her, I came across ANOTHER printed email from her at work. It's my guess she saved this (and later forgot about it I guess) as it seems to be the "first Email they ever sent each other." (Awwwwwwwww how cute? GAG!)
Why is it relevant? Because it's dated last September, and states, "Hey, we should get together sometime." His reply, "Yeah, that would be great, when we're both back from our vacations." Her answer, "OK, how about October 15th?"
I invite you all to scroll down the blog now and see the date of their first date/first adultery.
Yeah. That's right.
Thanks, EL. From start to finish, and with all the photographic proof, I've got the complete history of your infidelity and it's all completely legal.
What am I gonna do with it? Probably not a DAMN thing, unless I ever hear of her telling my friends, family, or HER family members any lies about why we got divorced. I don't care if she tells them "I just wanted out" or even "I didn't love him anymore" but if I EVER catch her claiming I had an affair, or that she was all sweet and pure and escaping the evil wife beating JD, well.....then she's going to have to contend with copies of all this stuff going up on the web, to her family, and maybe even to her work. None of which would be slander or libel as it's all real, in her own words, in her own photos freely posted to the Internet for anyone to see (who knew where to look) and legal.
LOL, why this rant right now, I have no idea, guess it was brewin' for awhile, and I was just talking to someone else about the "fairness of spying" AND your comment, Mac, just prompted me to want to re-iterate why I feel so good and moved on so quickly.
And welcome back, Mac. Had wondered what happened to you. Thought maybe you just gave up on me once it was clear the marriage was dead and I was OK with that. :)
(in SOME cases, anyway)
This is kinda/sorta in reply to a comment about how one's self esteem is destroyed by a cheating spouse.
My self esteem returned in full force when I realized, via reading my wife's email and chat logs, that she was a complete and total loon. Nay, skank!
That it was HER self esteem that was so trashed and broken, and her mental processes so damaged, that not only helped a little to end my marriage, but also explained her refusal to even consider any other options but instant divorce.
That there was no WAY I'd want to have stayed married to her knowing what I know now, even if I had had the option. Hey, I concede that it was HER decision, maybe even her RIGHT, to leave without even TRYING to reconcile, if that's what she wanted. But I also say, she wouldn't have if she wasn't so fuckin' nuts.
Anyway...
The ends may not justify the means, two wrongs may not make a right, but MY mental health is more important than my wife's right to privacy, as I see it.
I dare anyone to argue with me. How many people on this blog have told me, "Her problems aren't your problems, let it go."
Well, my invasion of her privacy is HER problem, not mine. She wasn't/isn't smart enough to take the simplest precautions that I taught her over the years, or that ANYONE could find out about for themselves in 15 minutes of Google searching, well, that's her problem.
So, that's how I let it go. I spied, and felt better, and spied more, and felt even more better.
And at no point have I ever felt bad about doing it. I don't feel I've "sunk to a new low." I have no desire to spy on my new girlfriend, or anyone in my past, or anyone else. I haven't even put my new girlfriend's name - or anyone else I dated before meeting her - in Google yet, and EVERYONE does that sooner or later, don't they? :)
So, screw it, I feel great about spying on her every step of the way. I've got the "proof" I wanted, and it's all legal. Knowing what she was thinking and saynig to people put me in the right place at the right time to "accidentally" find out lots of things that I needed to.
Hmm, not related to actual spying, but just another interesting thing I never got around to blogging, while cleaning out our "spare room" last weekend and bagging up a lot of EL's old clothes and stuff for her, I came across ANOTHER printed email from her at work. It's my guess she saved this (and later forgot about it I guess) as it seems to be the "first Email they ever sent each other." (Awwwwwwwww how cute? GAG!)
Why is it relevant? Because it's dated last September, and states, "Hey, we should get together sometime." His reply, "Yeah, that would be great, when we're both back from our vacations." Her answer, "OK, how about October 15th?"
I invite you all to scroll down the blog now and see the date of their first date/first adultery.
Yeah. That's right.
Thanks, EL. From start to finish, and with all the photographic proof, I've got the complete history of your infidelity and it's all completely legal.
What am I gonna do with it? Probably not a DAMN thing, unless I ever hear of her telling my friends, family, or HER family members any lies about why we got divorced. I don't care if she tells them "I just wanted out" or even "I didn't love him anymore" but if I EVER catch her claiming I had an affair, or that she was all sweet and pure and escaping the evil wife beating JD, well.....then she's going to have to contend with copies of all this stuff going up on the web, to her family, and maybe even to her work. None of which would be slander or libel as it's all real, in her own words, in her own photos freely posted to the Internet for anyone to see (who knew where to look) and legal.
LOL, why this rant right now, I have no idea, guess it was brewin' for awhile, and I was just talking to someone else about the "fairness of spying" AND your comment, Mac, just prompted me to want to re-iterate why I feel so good and moved on so quickly.
And welcome back, Mac. Had wondered what happened to you. Thought maybe you just gave up on me once it was clear the marriage was dead and I was OK with that. :)
posted by Fensty at 5:22 PM
8 Comments:
I have to agree with Mac here. I think you have a moral obligation to tell the OG's wife...or at least arrange for a third party to tell the OG's wife.
A woman I know was married for 40 years before discovering that her husband was gay all of those years. He basically forced himself to get married to a woman just to maintain the false image of normality in the small town they lived in. The woman literally wasted the last 20 years of her "marriage", if not all 40. If someone had told her years ago, it would have saved her so many stressful, conflict-laden, sexless years.
Also, I have a funny feeling that if you hadn't fallen into this new relationship, with a younger woman, so quickly, you wouldn't be so thrilled that EL is gone and you would still be holding out hope for her return.
SH
Still don't agree with Mac and SH on telling the OG's wife, but you know all about that already.
What I do have to say, also something I think I've said is this JD:
I understand that spying served a purpose for you.
I'm glad to see that you're over EL, moved on with your life, happy and that your self esteem has been helped by discovering she's a crazy broken slut, and that you don't want to be with her. Just because it's helpful doesn't mean its right, and I know you realise that she does have a right to privacy (just a selfish thought that you outweigh her, which isn't NICE but makes sense)... but my real question is this:
If everything is so peachy keen and you did it to bring you to where you are NOW, WHY DO YOU KEEP SPYING?
JD, I think you're lying to everyone if you say its HER problem you're spying. You know that isn't true. That's like saying its YOUR problem she cheated on you (ie you're the ACTIVE one, she's the PASSIVE one)
Just because she's TRUSTING enough of you still to think you wouldn't do something like that? How does it make HER guilty for believing a man she loved for years wouldn't do that to her? That's like saying YOU'RE guilty for not thinking SHE would cheat on you, just a difference of degree.
Anyway JD, if you had truly moved on, would you still be spying?
Well, won't argue too much Sara, except to say, moving on is a process, y'know?
I don't spy anywhere near as much, but I guess I do enjoy the continuing validation and dark amusement it brings.
Obsessive behavior...not a pretty thought. I DID stop the biggest most major spying issue recently, actually. Most I will say here is I completely shut down those who'd been nosing around for me and feeding back info.
The rest is slowing losing it's interest too. That I take to be part of "moving on" and why I'm not too worried I'm gonna go all obsessive. If I were, I'd be spying on RHA by now wouldn't I? Or my ex's family, or RHA's ex or whatever. But I don't 'cuz I really don't give a crap.
As for the OG and the affair, Mac, I really don't care much about that anymore either. All in all I don't really trust my own motives for why I want to tell his wife - I don't think I want to 'help the wife' so much as I just wanna fuck the OG over, and I won't do it for that reason.
Well, anyway, I'll probably "cut the cord" a bit more on the spying soon once and for all. There is one more "active" thing I can do that will pretty much remove the potential for spying at all, and I'll probably do that soon to remove the temptation to backslide.
BTW, Mac, how can you claim to have stopped spying, and at the same time admit you went through phone records from 1991?
I don't think goin through phone records in his own house could be considered spying. That's like sayin you're not gonna look at your credit card bill because someone else might have charged somethin to it.
I hate to burst the bubble, but the spying never stops. My ex wasn't even all that sneaky when we were gettin divorced. Tried to do it the "easy" way, with the Staples purchase, but while I was living there with him (tryin to make it easier on our children), he went through my jewelry boxes lookin for money and info, looked under beds, in closets, hacked my email, went into chatrooms pretending to be me. And usually while I was sittin right there.
After the boys and I moved out, it continued so far as to keep a record of who parked infront of my house, the amount of minutes I was late to pick up or drop off the boys, asking my boys (7 and 10 at the time) what I was doin.
Now the bubble bursting part...we've been divorced for 2 years this June, and he still gets "nosy". I wouldn't call it outright spying, just nosy. And I'm sure there's still a file he's keeping on me. The nature of the beast.
Hobby
Well, don't overgeneralize OK?
I haven't ever felt an interest in driving past her house and seeing who's there, for example. Don't care. Could have opened her credit card statements, or other mail, tapped her phone, etc. I never cared. I'm not that weird.
I read some emails and a few other things to find out what was going on. When I found out she was taking photos, I decided I wanted some for proof so I made a few maneuvers to get them. And once I did, I pretty much laid off.
I was still getting lots of info, so of course I HEARD it, but I didn't really care and I took what steps I could to curb it, actually.
So...don't lump me in there. I'm quite certain I will stop doing the spying. I pretty much did already.
Will I always be a tad bit curious who the other men in my son's life are? Damn right! Just as I understand EL would want to find out a few things about RHA to see who the woman is spending time with her son. I respect that and wouldn't consider it being "nosy" even if I found out she was "asking around" or Googling RHA or something like that, and not just relying on what I told her outright.
But "spying", nah.
And if reading phone records in his own house isn't spying, then, is me reading Email on my own computer? Even if it was sent to someone else and I'm scanning it out of the hard drive? Where ya gonna draw that line?
JD
Mac...
First, Just because I'm younger doesn't necessarily mean I don't have "experience"... just because I don't refer to it doesn't necessarily mean I don't have it. In fact, I think you might be surprised at the "to tell or not to tell" dilemna that was in my life. It'd probably make your head spin, and I'd be happy to share it with you privately, if you're ever interested or if that will somehow boost credibility. I'll tell you that to this day I've continued not to tell, and really, I think it's a good thing personally.
Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm wrong. It means I have a different opinion, which has been built of MY experience, my knowledge, my morals, my ethics, and my view of the world. I don't condone cheating. Sometimes I choose to play devil's advocate, and I do think that there are worse or equally awful things as cheating you can do to a spouse/partner. Doesn't mean I condone cheating.
We have different opinions, based on entirely different experiences. This isn't a "fight" about who has more experience, or who is right. This is a very personal decision that JD has to make himself, and I'd have to say that as much as I know I wouldn't tell the OG's wife if I were in the situation, there is no RIGHT and WRONG.
You miss something fundamental when you compare JD's situation to him enabling an alcoholic. JD doesn't know the OG's wife. He's not FRIENDS with the OG. Heck, from what I can tell he barely knows the guy. In my opinion, there is no MORAL obligation to meddle in a strangers life... if there were FRIENDS involved in this situation it might be different. Paris Hilton seems like an alcoholic to me, but you don't see me intervening. Am I enabling her?
Anyhow, I don't think you're WRONG, and I thank you for the positive comments you made about me. I also don't think I'm wrong, I just have a different view of the world based on how I've been raised, and how I perceive everything going on around me.
JD -- Whatever decision you make it'll be the right one I'm sure. There are lots of pressing reasons to go either way, and its all about doing what you think is the right thing. Most of the world isn't bound to a code of ethics (unless you're lucky enough to be in the legal profession or some other profession that instills its ethics on you)
(Same with you SH, I don't think you're wrong either. just because I don't choose to do things the same way you do, or think I'd enjoy it, doesn't mean I think you're wrong... everyone is just different, and I like hearing about that because frankly I'm a sponge and I like to try and understand how people tick)
I'm sorry, wasn't meaning to lump you in with my ex, only meant that the curiosity (maybe is a better word) will always be there. Especially about other people in your son's life. That's natural.
And to clarify a bit more. If she was dumb enough to leave the computer she was using to communicate this affiar in your house when she left, then by all means search away on the hard drive. Her mistake. But somehow receiving email that may be for her, by fair means or foul, if you read it now, that's spying. Just as if you would open mail coming to your house addied for her. You crack it open, you're spying.
If someone else comes to you and says "you wouldn't believe what she did now...", that's not spying, UNLESS you've asked them to find out for you. That's one step away from hiring someone to follow her.
So, I think we agree on most of that from what I've read.
And somethin else I wanted to comment on real quick. I've been "computer literate" for years..lol. And I've only ever "googled" someone twice. Not everyone has that urge. Even though I don't consider that spying (if it's easily found in a simple search, it's free game), I do consider that showin a serious lack of trust in the person you're searching on. And if you don't think it's a lack of trust and just simple curiosity, then you're showing a little obsessive behavior over needing to know as much as you can about someone. To me, that would take all the fun out of gettin to know that person and being able to be close.
Hobby
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