So, Some Lawyer Updates...
Well...a long day, an expensive day, but overall, nothing bad...
So, lots of questions answered at my first actual lawyer session. Things moving.
Picked up the papers, took 'em to work, made a couple copies, and headed over to the law office.
Nothing out of the ordinary or surprising in the divorce suit. A few things such as "Plaintiff believes she would be the better parent, as she has been more involved in the Child's life" kinda bugged me but I was assured that's really just standard "Wife Files Boilerplate" and my lawyer doesn't even need any particulars to refute that at the time as her answer will just be the standard, "Husband Replies Boilerplate" at this point.
In fact, only remotely interesting think in the whole suit, really, was that EL attempted to claim we have lived, "Apart and seperate since Oct 15th, 2004."
Anyone remember why she picked that date in particular?
Yep. The night she committed adultery, you got it. :)
That was the first, probably not the last, time this blog served it's most useful purpose aside from therapy - I just logged in from my PDA, scrolled down a bit, and said, "No...the day I gave her the letter informing her we were seperated but living in the same home was 11/5/04. The word divorce was never mentioned prior to that. In fact, prior to that she had gone to counseling with me, and told me she would "work on the marriage" with me."
Fuck you, EL. Nice try, thank you for playing.
Not that it matters anyway, really, but facts are facts so I'm not letting her get away with even such an insignificant little thing.
As she is not asking for alimony/spouse support, the affair actually has no bearing on anything, really. Which is good, because the only 100% solid, legal, admissable proof I have is the Emails she printed from work, dated 11/17 . I have the "love you / love you too" note thing from late October, and other circumstantial proof like phone records and such, but nothing else that's good in court. So...good that it doesn't matter.
On that note - unfortunately, Pennsylvania's wiretap law is one of the ones that requires BOTH parties to be made aware of any taping, so, that idea is out. And just having MADE a recording, would actually be a criminal act, so as satisfying as that was, any that ever existed are now gone. Or, at least, will never be found until the statute of limitations runs out. :)
Now, as for Emails and other things found via the browser cache, and the IM logs, email saved on the computer and so on..well...there is no law on that, so if I felt like someday showing any of that to EL or her family or whatever, it's not a criminal act. But useless otherwise and would only serve to piss her off, and any positive impact on MY case in custody court by her whoring around, would be offset by the negative impact on my cae of the spying. A wash.
So, on the custody issue - if I agree to 3 days to EL's 4 days, that is not a problem. Lawyer informs me in Pennsylvania, as most other states, "legal" custody and "physical" custody are 100% seperate, and the courts will almost NEVER give anything less than 50/50 "legal custody." So we both are equally involved in all major decisions - schools, moving out of state, his activities, and so on - and if we can't come to an equitable agreement between us, it goes to a judge to decide, neither parent can overrule the other.
"Physical" custody is another matter, of course, and while my lawyer says 50/50 is the standard there too without any circumstances otherwise, and she assures me that there are none in our case (either for or against me, really) if I CHOOSE to let EL have the extra day (as the price of EL's cooperation in everything else) it has absolutely no impact on anything other than a few bucks a month child support.
So - I will probably concede that one to EL to shut her up and have her play along. The immoral personal ad, strange sex practices, refusal to go to counseling alone or couples, and other stuff about EL COULD help sway things my way in a "custody fight" but it would more than likely just be expensive, bitter, and end up being 50/50 physical custody in the end anyway. So, since she keeps saying she only wants this for the first year anyway, fine.
Because, unlike the DIVORCE agreement, which once signed is unchangeable, ever, the physical CUSTODY agreement can be brought back before a judge by either party at any time. So, giving up a day now makes no real difference.
Lastly, on the house front turns out all this refinancing stuff was unnecessary. Damn, wish I had done even the simplest research before putting down the $400 nonrefundable "lock fee" to the lender. Because, a simple call to my current mortgage lender brought the staggeringly good news that my mortgage is "assumable" meaning, if I pass the credit check (and I've already been approved for $10k over the current principal) I pay a small fee, a couple of paperwork charges, all told be less than $2000, and I take over the current mortgage. This is to everyone's advantage, as it's more money for EL as well as easier for me. So, I have high hopes that EL will agree to that arrangement for a fair amount of my 401k transferred to her. Lawyer agreed - since EL could easily fight for half of it anyway, giving it to her voluntarily is a goodwill act that I shouldn't try too hard to weasel out of a couple bucks on.
So, that's that. Like I said, mainly, good news. It appears that, if I give EL this "one day" thing, and she's willing to go along with everything else....it's going to make everyone happy, only be for a year anyway, and it ads up to, what, 52 extra days for the year? I'm not worried about it - my son loves his Daddy and 52 less days right now for the goodwill of a cooperative EL is worth it any way you look at it.
So, lots of questions answered at my first actual lawyer session. Things moving.
Picked up the papers, took 'em to work, made a couple copies, and headed over to the law office.
Nothing out of the ordinary or surprising in the divorce suit. A few things such as "Plaintiff believes she would be the better parent, as she has been more involved in the Child's life" kinda bugged me but I was assured that's really just standard "Wife Files Boilerplate" and my lawyer doesn't even need any particulars to refute that at the time as her answer will just be the standard, "Husband Replies Boilerplate" at this point.
In fact, only remotely interesting think in the whole suit, really, was that EL attempted to claim we have lived, "Apart and seperate since Oct 15th, 2004."
Anyone remember why she picked that date in particular?
Yep. The night she committed adultery, you got it. :)
That was the first, probably not the last, time this blog served it's most useful purpose aside from therapy - I just logged in from my PDA, scrolled down a bit, and said, "No...the day I gave her the letter informing her we were seperated but living in the same home was 11/5/04. The word divorce was never mentioned prior to that. In fact, prior to that she had gone to counseling with me, and told me she would "work on the marriage" with me."
Fuck you, EL. Nice try, thank you for playing.
Not that it matters anyway, really, but facts are facts so I'm not letting her get away with even such an insignificant little thing.
As she is not asking for alimony/spouse support, the affair actually has no bearing on anything, really. Which is good, because the only 100% solid, legal, admissable proof I have is the Emails she printed from work, dated 11/17 . I have the "love you / love you too" note thing from late October, and other circumstantial proof like phone records and such, but nothing else that's good in court. So...good that it doesn't matter.
On that note - unfortunately, Pennsylvania's wiretap law is one of the ones that requires BOTH parties to be made aware of any taping, so, that idea is out. And just having MADE a recording, would actually be a criminal act, so as satisfying as that was, any that ever existed are now gone. Or, at least, will never be found until the statute of limitations runs out. :)
Now, as for Emails and other things found via the browser cache, and the IM logs, email saved on the computer and so on..well...there is no law on that, so if I felt like someday showing any of that to EL or her family or whatever, it's not a criminal act. But useless otherwise and would only serve to piss her off, and any positive impact on MY case in custody court by her whoring around, would be offset by the negative impact on my cae of the spying. A wash.
So, on the custody issue - if I agree to 3 days to EL's 4 days, that is not a problem. Lawyer informs me in Pennsylvania, as most other states, "legal" custody and "physical" custody are 100% seperate, and the courts will almost NEVER give anything less than 50/50 "legal custody." So we both are equally involved in all major decisions - schools, moving out of state, his activities, and so on - and if we can't come to an equitable agreement between us, it goes to a judge to decide, neither parent can overrule the other.
"Physical" custody is another matter, of course, and while my lawyer says 50/50 is the standard there too without any circumstances otherwise, and she assures me that there are none in our case (either for or against me, really) if I CHOOSE to let EL have the extra day (as the price of EL's cooperation in everything else) it has absolutely no impact on anything other than a few bucks a month child support.
So - I will probably concede that one to EL to shut her up and have her play along. The immoral personal ad, strange sex practices, refusal to go to counseling alone or couples, and other stuff about EL COULD help sway things my way in a "custody fight" but it would more than likely just be expensive, bitter, and end up being 50/50 physical custody in the end anyway. So, since she keeps saying she only wants this for the first year anyway, fine.
Because, unlike the DIVORCE agreement, which once signed is unchangeable, ever, the physical CUSTODY agreement can be brought back before a judge by either party at any time. So, giving up a day now makes no real difference.
Lastly, on the house front turns out all this refinancing stuff was unnecessary. Damn, wish I had done even the simplest research before putting down the $400 nonrefundable "lock fee" to the lender. Because, a simple call to my current mortgage lender brought the staggeringly good news that my mortgage is "assumable" meaning, if I pass the credit check (and I've already been approved for $10k over the current principal) I pay a small fee, a couple of paperwork charges, all told be less than $2000, and I take over the current mortgage. This is to everyone's advantage, as it's more money for EL as well as easier for me. So, I have high hopes that EL will agree to that arrangement for a fair amount of my 401k transferred to her. Lawyer agreed - since EL could easily fight for half of it anyway, giving it to her voluntarily is a goodwill act that I shouldn't try too hard to weasel out of a couple bucks on.
So, that's that. Like I said, mainly, good news. It appears that, if I give EL this "one day" thing, and she's willing to go along with everything else....it's going to make everyone happy, only be for a year anyway, and it ads up to, what, 52 extra days for the year? I'm not worried about it - my son loves his Daddy and 52 less days right now for the goodwill of a cooperative EL is worth it any way you look at it.
posted by Fensty at 1:18 AM
3 Comments:
Hi JD
Your lawyer sounds... great. Really. I'm not in PA and I have never heard of it being described as the frontrunner of equitable custody decisions but hopefully this will all be as easy as she is saying. I can't say I'm not a bit skeptical, but I am so hopeful for you.
I have looked up a couple of fathers groups in PA for you. I hope you try to touch base with a couple to make sure the information you are getting is the norm.
Really, my concern is not so much the initial agreement, I anticipate she wants this to be painless as well considering all the "info" out there about her. However, setting this type of precedent, I do not see it as being anything but detrimental to you down the line.
Your attorney is right in that (unless terribly unfit) the courts almost always order joint legal custody (or decision making custody) - however, it is far more rare to order real joint physical custody 50/50. She is also correct that (in my state for instance) joint physical custody can refer to anything from 50/50 to 70/30. However, do not think for one second that a judge will look at your joint physical custody agreement the same if you are 60/40 than if you were 50/50.
So, I think I have said about as much as I can about this. I hope you try to talk to some of these groups or find others - just to make sure. I am not endorsing any of them as I have no experience with them and literally just now looked them up online. But here you go anyway:
Operation Sunlight: http://www.geocities.com/operationsunlight/
operationsunlight@yahoo.com
Fathers Raising Children Project
Hill House Association
1835 Centre Ave.
Pittsburgh, PA 15219
Phone: (412) 392-4410
Webmaster@frcpgh.org
CRC is a national organization and reputable in my experience:
CRC of Pittsburgh
1400 Inverness Avenue
Pittsburgh, PA 15217 Michael Nieland, M.D. President Phone: 412-621-0222
CRC of Philadelphia
P.O. Box 11413
Philadelphia, PA 19111 Rita A. Jones, President
Bill Clements, Treasurer
Phone: 215-844-2372
call after 6pm
CRC of Harrisburg
15 Beaver Road
Camp Hill, PA 17011 Kurt Krusen Phone: 717-763-0673
Fax: 717-763-7183
CRC of N. Central Pa.
Melanie Will, contact
570-837-1837
crcpennsylvania@aol.com
PENNSYLVANIA PARENTHOOD INITIATIVE
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/4688/papi.htm
From what I see currently about PA (from the ABA website) is though joint custody is authorized, there is not currently a presumption in favor of it. PA Bill HB 1723 has been floating around since 1998 to provide such an assumption but has not yet been passed. This is the text of the bill: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/4688/hb1723.htm
Sorry JD, I am going to stop harping about this. I wish you the best and I truly hope it goes as smoothly as your attorney is making it sound. However, boilerplate or not, if El was serious about "not taking your child away" she EASILY could have omitted the "spends more time with child" stuff.
Meg
No way, Meg! Keep harping!
I wanted to Email you the other day actually to thank you, but your profile doesn't work, or you've got it private. Either way - do me a favor, send me an Email will you? I'd like to get in touch.
You are an amazing help to me, as are several others on the blog who have legal background or advocacy backgrounds - you know who you are. :)
In fact, you pretty much read my mind, the main reason I wanted to Email you was to find out what resources I should be getting involved with to make some of my own determinations about all this.
Mainly, I'm concerned...is there a "snowball" effect with this kind of thing - if I give in and do a 4/3 physical custody deal, does that then make it easier next year for her to say, "See, he only has him 3 days a week anyway, so why not just weekends?" and the year after that, "One weekend a month should be plenty..." and so on?
It's more her MOTHER I don't trust than her...
So...get in touch. :)
JD
JD --
I wouldn't worry about the "snowball" thing you're thinking about... and this is from a common sense point of view really, based on the law where I am rather than anything Pensylvania based... but think about it...
Any judge realises that the best interests of the child are not to go through a bitter custody dispute. The way you're explaining it to me is that if you don't agree to a 4/3 split (which really, is pretty close to 50/50), then EL will drag out a bitter custody dispute.
So what you're doing, by all accounts, seems to be putting your son first and not fighting over one day. No judge in their right mind is going to say "Well, he only has him three days a week, why not just weekends?"... especially if it got to court and you testified as to the reason all this ended up the way it did (ie to protect the Boy from a custody dispute)
If you're really worried, maybe you can write something into your custody agreement indicating whats really gone on? Even a letter from the lawyer to EL, just confirming "I will agree to 4/3 split to avoid a custody dispute, since that's what you said would happen if I didn't"? Those kind of letters (we call them CYA letters) are great proof in a court... Then everything is all documented in case of future issues... not that I think that's really even an issue for concern.
Anyway, I would say that from what I've heard things seem to be good and it doesn't sound to me like you have anything to be skeptical about. I know that's hard to believe, when you're thrown into a world where everyone seems to have these weird rules that don't make much sense, and even speak a different legalese type of language all the time..... but seriously, sounds like you have a good lawyer who's got a grasp on this whole thing. The legal system is definitely getting better at dealing with divorce and related issues.
Also, not to make you feel like a number but your whole story is pretty standard... nothing too bizarre or out of the norm for someone who practices family law, so if it makes you feel more comfortable your lawyer has probably seen hundreds of cases very much like yours and EL's.
SW -- still not a lawyer.
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